Which splines get lubed in a "spline lube"?

rideoregon · 09-05-2007, 08:28 AM

My 95 K75, with about 22K miles on the odo, is in need of a clutch spline lube (downshifts are difficult, requiring blip of throttle to line the dogs up). But in looking at my Clymers, I note the obvious: there are splines at the other end of the driveshaft too.

So my question: When we talk about a brick in need of a spline lube or a brick that's had its splines lubed, exactly what splines are we talking about? And when ensuring proper lubrication of my K-bike's splines, should I be lubing at both ends of the drive shaft?

Sorry if this has been covered, but I did a search and didn't find what I was looking for.

Thanks in advance.

RideOregon
'95 K-75
'97 R1100R

deilenberger · 09-05-2007, 08:43 AM

Good question since the term "spline lube" is frequently used without explaination.

To do a complete job - the rear drive and transmission have to be removed.

The clutch splines - and the input shaft to the transmission are the first lubrication point. If the bike has no transmission/engine alignment problems (and if it's gone more than 20,000 miles without spline failure - it's OK..) - this is IMHO a 40,000 mile or every 3 year sort of thing to do - if you use the correct lube.

The driveshaft splines - there is a front and rear spline. The front spline isn't a sliding spline - it clips in place on the output shaft of the transmission. FWIW - I have never seen any significant wear on these splines - despite total neglect. The important one to lubricate is the rear driveshaft spline/rear-drive input spline. This IS a sliding spline - and neglect of this will result in failure. I'd suggest doing this no less than every other rear tire change, or every 2 years.

What to use - Honda Moly-60 has worked well for a LOT of people, and is easy to order at a Honda shop. It's made for use on Honda sliding splines - and seems to hold up well and prevent gross wear as long as some of it remains in the splines.

What not to use - BMW #10. If you have this red grease (came in a big toothpaste sort of tube) - send it to recycling. It's virtually useless in any application.

The rear driveshaft splines - once cleaned (important - some greases don't "mix" well - or play well together) and lubed with Honda Moly-60, can be done rather quickly on a monolever bike. It's what I call a modified Anton technique (Anton L came up with the idea originally - I added to it..):

1 - get a block of wood just high enough that it slides under your rear tire when the bike is on the centerstand.

2 - unclip any wires and hoses going to the rear brake/ABS, and the wire going to the speedo sensor in the rear drive.

3 - loosen the 4 bolts holding the rear drive to the driveshaft and remove them

4 - roll the wheel backwards - just enough that the splines start to pull out of the driveshaft - and you can see them

5 - liberally slather (tech-term) the exposed splines with Honda Moly-60 using an artists 1/2" brush.

6 - roll the wheel forwards - so splines fully engage

7 - repeat #4-6 several times (think of it as a porn film..)

8 - when satisifed the splines are lubed - bolt the rear drive back up and replace any clips/wires that you removed.

9 - remove block of wood from under the rear tire

The entire sequence - maybe 10 minutes once you learn to do it. It IS important that before doing it this way - you initially clean any old non-Honda-60 grease off the splines - but once you've done that - the modified Anton method is the way to go.

Unfortunately - there is no shortcut I find reasonable to do the clutch splines. Disassembly is really the only way to do it.. I've tried sliding the trans back, and ended up having to buy new clutch components due to this.

More than you ever wanted to know..

Beemer01 · 09-05-2007, 10:44 AM

Listen to Don -

My 30,000 mile '85 K100RS had NEVER had the splines lubed once it left the factory. Blame the PO.

I did the whole thing - results... 3-4 hours total time.

Input splines showed zero wear, struggled a bit to reassemble after I lubed them, I would use the slide back Anton method next time.

Final drive splines showed quite a bit of wear, lubed them, will have to replace them this winter. Final drive splines are fairly easy to access - perhaps a one hour job once you're set up and the bike secured.

Kayseventyfive · 09-06-2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deilenberger

.................................................. ...........................................More than you ever wanted to know..

Not at all, Don. Really good and complete information.

Thank you.

PAULBACH · 09-06-2007, 07:56 PM

Copy and paste this Deilenberger gem into a word document and save for a rainy day!

BuckeyeClark · 09-08-2007, 09:25 AM

1 - get a block of wood just high enough that it slides under your rear tire when the bike is on the centerstand.

2 - unclip any wires and hoses going to the rear brake/ABS, and the wire going to the speedo sensor in the rear drive.

3 - loosen the 4 bolts holding the rear drive to the driveshaft and remove them

4 - roll the wheel backwards - just enough that the splines start to pull out of the driveshaft - and you can see them

5 - liberally slather (tech-term) the exposed splines with Honda Moly-60 using an artists 1/2" brush.

6 - roll the wheel forwards - so splines fully engage

7 - repeat #4-6 several times (think of it as a porn film..)

8 - when satisifed the splines are lubed - bolt the rear drive back up and replace any clips/wires that you removed.

9 - remove block of wood from under the rear tire

The entire sequence - maybe 10 minutes once you learn to do it. It IS important that before doing it this way - you initially clean any old non-Honda-60 grease off the splines - but once you've done that - the modified Anton method is the way to go.

Unfortunately - there is no shortcut I find reasonable to do the clutch splines. Disassembly is really the only way to do it.. I've tried sliding the trans back, and ended up having to buy new clutch components due to this.

More than you ever wanted to know..

[/QUOTE]

Okay, armed with Don's advice I went to the Honda shop yesterday and bought a tube of Honda Moly 60 and, with much apprehension, dove into this project. Maybe the "10 minutes once you learn to do it" will kick in at some point; however, it took this first timer a little closer to an hour and 1/2.
First off came the side bags then the speedo sensor. At that point I realized that the rear brake caliper would need to be unhooked. I chose to remove the bolts holding the caliper in place. I then removed the four bolts holding the final drive. Immediately it was apparent that the shock would need removed from the bottom connection. To do this I needed to remove the side bag bracket. At this point the final drive slid backwards just like Don said it would. I cleaned off the spline, which looked perfectly fine and liberally applied the Honda Moly 60 with a small paint brush. I slid the drive forward and repeated the application of the lube a few more times. After that I re-assembled all the components and took a ride. Everything seems to be working fine.

Thanks, Don for this information! I am no mechanic; however, with the help of the fine folks here in the forums I am learning to take on allot of the general maintenance that I could not have done without the guidance.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, after reading this post, of where I may have taken unecessary steps...please feel free to reply.

Again, thanks Don....

rideoregon · 09-08-2007, 09:29 AM

Many thanks for the excellent and detailed information. That was exactly what I was looking for.

BTW, I was at the dealership yesterday to pick up a case of oil and some filters, and I casually asked the service manager what they get for a spline lube. He said in season it's $360 + parts (i.e. the lube), but they run specials of $100 off in the winter. I asked him what exactly is included, and he said, "That's all three spline locations -- clutch and both driveshaft splines. Front to back."

I'll probably let them do it this winter, but I'll buy my own lube for them to use.

sgborgstrom · 09-08-2007, 11:15 AM

Don't fold so fast RO.

Take the money you would be giving to the dealer and buy whatever tools you don't already have to do the job. Since you have an R1100 too and it's going to need the same service at some point that's a $720 one time investement- plenty for some nice tools and a good workstand and money you will never have to spend again.

Taking apart the back half of your K lets you get in there and clean up any other issues you might find along the way really efficiently. Everything is off, why put worn parts back on? (IMO this is where BMW got some of their reputation for longevity)

I've been doing my own maintenance since getting my first motorcycle in 1982. For me, working on bikes is as integral a part of my overall moto-experience as putting on a helmet.

deilenberger · 09-08-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeClark

Okay, armed with Don's advice I went to the Honda shop yesterday and bought a tube of Honda Moly 60 and, with much apprehension, dove into this project. Maybe the "10 minutes once you learn to do it" will kick in at some point; however, it took this first timer a little closer to an hour and 1/2.

I think I implied it would take longer the first time..

Quote:

First off came the side bags then the speedo sensor. At that point I realized that the rear brake caliper would need to be unhooked. I chose to remove the bolts holding the caliper in place. I then removed the four bolts holding the final drive. Immediately it was apparent that the shock would need removed from the bottom connection. To do this I needed to remove the side bag bracket. At this point the final drive slid backwards just like Don said it would.

Ah - that's the mistake. The rear shock stays in place and helps to suppor the rear drive. No need to remove it - or the bag mount...

Quote:

I cleaned off the spline, which looked perfectly fine and liberally applied the Honda Moly 60 with a small paint brush. I slid the drive forward and repeated the application of the lube a few more times. After that I re-assembled all the components and took a ride. Everything seems to be working fine.

Thanks, Don for this information! I am no mechanic; however, with the help of the fine folks here in the forums I am learning to take on allot of the general maintenance that I could not have done without the guidance.

If anyone has any advice or suggestions, after reading this post, of where I may have taken unecessary steps...please feel free to reply.

Again, thanks Don....

As suggested - the first time - to get the splines clean - you have to slide it back far enough that the splines disengage. That can actually be done with the shock attached - but it's probably easier if you unbolt the bottom shock mount, and remove the bottom mount for the bag mount.

In the future - you only have to slide it back about 1/2" to get the brush in there to slather (tech-term) the splines with lube. So the brake can stay on, and all you have to do is un-tiewrap the wires for the speedo sensor where they go forwards so you have enough slack in it to slide back 1/2".

Neatness doesn't count in this job - you can liberally slather the goop on the splines. Extra will get thrown off - but inside the swingarm where it won't hurt a thing.

Glad it was helpful - and hopefully it will inspire others to keep an eye on their rear splines..

BuckeyeClark · 09-08-2007, 08:16 PM

Yes I suppose i could have gotten it back 1/2" without taking off the shock; however, at the time it seemed to be necessary. The spline did disengage, which freaked me out a little at first until I realized that it would slide back in. I am sure that, in the future, this job will take no more than 1/2 hour to 1 hr for me to accomplish. Thanks again....

deancox · 09-09-2007, 02:27 AM

One of the best step by step descriptions of how to do both ends of the drive is here: http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/driveshaft-spline-lube.shtml

Between this and the excellent instructions given previously, no one should fear this relatively simple procedure.

lostandwandering · 09-25-2007, 08:50 PM

I have an 87 K75S with only 11,500 miles but I don't know much of its past history. I want to do the spline lube and include the transmission input shaft. Low miles but if it hasn't been apart before it seems as if 20 year old grease should get some reinforcement by now. Anyrate, the Clymer manual calls for the use of an anti-seize lubricant on the swing arm pivot pins. Does anyone have any comment on this step?

deilenberger · 09-25-2007, 10:39 PM

Unless there is wear on the swingarm pivot bolts - there is no reason to remove them to do a spline lube. The swingarm can remain attached to the transmission as it is removed. It is helpful to remove the rear drive - mostly in the interest of reducing weight - but also to lube the rear drive input shaft. I wouldn't worry about the transmission output shaft - I have never heard of anyone destroying one - even with lots of miles and total neglect.

lostandwandering · 09-26-2007, 06:29 PM

Thanks Don,
Are there any other steps I can eliminate to simplify this process?

deilenberger · 09-26-2007, 10:56 PM

If you can get someone to help - and have the bike strapped down on a good bike lift, with a support under the engine, you can lift off the entire transmission, swing-arm and the two sideplates for the footpegs without disassembling all of it.

If you're really clever - you can even leave the rear brake components in place by tying the caliper to the swing-arm. The two sideplates with footpegs make handy hand-holds putting it back on.. and you MUST make up at least 2 (I prefer 4) guide pins for sliding it back on. The IBMWR articles talk about that I believe. If you don't know about those - go to www.ibmwr.org - look under K-tech.

When I'm "in form" - I've done it - with one helper in about 90 minutes, start to finish. That's with remembering exactly what tools I needed, what the disassembly sequence was, etc - familiarity from when I did the same job 3 times in a week (don't ask..)

First try - leave an afternoon for it. The next time - you'll have it done in 3 hours.

HTH,

09-05-2007, 08:43 AM	#2
deilenberger A bozo on the bus Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Spring Lake NJ, USA Posts: 4,052	Good question since the term "spline lube" is frequently used without explaination. To do a complete job - the rear drive and transmission have to be removed. The clutch splines - and the input shaft to the transmission are the first lubrication point. If the bike has no transmission/engine alignment problems (and if it's gone more than 20,000 miles without spline failure - it's OK..) - this is IMHO a 40,000 mile or every 3 year sort of thing to do - if you use the correct lube. The driveshaft splines - there is a front and rear spline. The front spline isn't a sliding spline - it clips in place on the output shaft of the transmission. FWIW - I have never seen any significant wear on these splines - despite total neglect. The important one to lubricate is the rear driveshaft spline/rear-drive input spline. This IS a sliding spline - and neglect of this will result in failure. I'd suggest doing this no less than every other rear tire change, or every 2 years. What to use - Honda Moly-60 has worked well for a LOT of people, and is easy to order at a Honda shop. It's made for use on Honda sliding splines - and seems to hold up well and prevent gross wear as long as some of it remains in the splines. What not to use - BMW #10. If you have this red grease (came in a big toothpaste sort of tube) - send it to recycling. It's virtually useless in any application. The rear driveshaft splines - once cleaned (important - some greases don't "mix" well - or play well together) and lubed with Honda Moly-60, can be done rather quickly on a monolever bike. It's what I call a modified Anton technique (Anton L came up with the idea originally - I added to it..): 1 - get a block of wood just high enough that it slides under your rear tire when the bike is on the centerstand. 2 - unclip any wires and hoses going to the rear brake/ABS, and the wire going to the speedo sensor in the rear drive. 3 - loosen the 4 bolts holding the rear drive to the driveshaft and remove them 4 - roll the wheel backwards - just enough that the splines start to pull out of the driveshaft - and you can see them 5 - liberally slather (tech-term) the exposed splines with Honda Moly-60 using an artists 1/2" brush. 6 - roll the wheel forwards - so splines fully engage 7 - repeat #4-6 several times (think of it as a porn film..) 8 - when satisifed the splines are lubed - bolt the rear drive back up and replace any clips/wires that you removed. 9 - remove block of wood from under the rear tire The entire sequence - maybe 10 minutes once you learn to do it. It IS important that before doing it this way - you initially clean any old non-Honda-60 grease off the splines - but once you've done that - the modified Anton method is the way to go. Unfortunately - there is no shortcut I find reasonable to do the clutch splines. Disassembly is really the only way to do it.. I've tried sliding the trans back, and ended up having to buy new clutch components due to this. More than you ever wanted to know.. __________________ Don Eilenberger, MOA Ambassador - http://www.eilenberger.net Spring Lk Heights NJ - NJ Shore BMW Riders Ex-lotsa beemers, '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers..

09-05-2007, 10:44 AM	#3
Beemer01 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Lake Forest, Ill Posts: 681	Spline lube Listen to Don - My 30,000 mile '85 K100RS had NEVER had the splines lubed once it left the factory. Blame the PO. I did the whole thing - results... 3-4 hours total time. Input splines showed zero wear, struggled a bit to reassemble after I lubed them, I would use the slide back Anton method next time. Final drive splines showed quite a bit of wear, lubed them, will have to replace them this winter. Final drive splines are fairly easy to access - perhaps a one hour job once you're set up and the bike secured.

09-06-2007, 07:56 PM	#5
PAULBACH Once there was a Tavern Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ballston Spa, NY; South of the Adirondacks, North of the Catskills and West of The Berkshires and Green Mountains Posts: 6,467	Copy and paste this Deilenberger gem into a word document and save for a rainy day! __________________ Paul Bachorz - F Twins Moderator RA Rallymeister - Pownal, Vermont For *Touring Tips* archives click here

09-08-2007, 09:25 AM	#6
BuckeyeClark Riding From The Black Dog Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Upper Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 243	1 - get a block of wood just high enough that it slides under your rear tire when the bike is on the centerstand. 2 - unclip any wires and hoses going to the rear brake/ABS, and the wire going to the speedo sensor in the rear drive. 3 - loosen the 4 bolts holding the rear drive to the driveshaft and remove them 4 - roll the wheel backwards - just enough that the splines start to pull out of the driveshaft - and you can see them 5 - liberally slather (tech-term) the exposed splines with Honda Moly-60 using an artists 1/2" brush. 6 - roll the wheel forwards - so splines fully engage 7 - repeat #4-6 several times (think of it as a porn film..) 8 - when satisifed the splines are lubed - bolt the rear drive back up and replace any clips/wires that you removed. 9 - remove block of wood from under the rear tire The entire sequence - maybe 10 minutes once you learn to do it. It IS important that before doing it this way - you initially clean any old non-Honda-60 grease off the splines - but once you've done that - the modified Anton method is the way to go. Unfortunately - there is no shortcut I find reasonable to do the clutch splines. Disassembly is really the only way to do it.. I've tried sliding the trans back, and ended up having to buy new clutch components due to this. More than you ever wanted to know.. [/QUOTE] Okay, armed with Don's advice I went to the Honda shop yesterday and bought a tube of Honda Moly 60 and, with much apprehension, dove into this project. Maybe the "10 minutes once you learn to do it" will kick in at some point; however, it took this first timer a little closer to an hour and 1/2. First off came the side bags then the speedo sensor. At that point I realized that the rear brake caliper would need to be unhooked. I chose to remove the bolts holding the caliper in place. I then removed the four bolts holding the final drive. Immediately it was apparent that the shock would need removed from the bottom connection. To do this I needed to remove the side bag bracket. At this point the final drive slid backwards just like Don said it would. I cleaned off the spline, which looked perfectly fine and liberally applied the Honda Moly 60 with a small paint brush. I slid the drive forward and repeated the application of the lube a few more times. After that I re-assembled all the components and took a ride. Everything seems to be working fine. Thanks, Don for this information! I am no mechanic; however, with the help of the fine folks here in the forums I am learning to take on allot of the general maintenance that I could not have done without the guidance. If anyone has any advice or suggestions, after reading this post, of where I may have taken unecessary steps...please feel free to reply. Again, thanks Don.... __________________ “I intend to live forever. So far, so good." 1994 R1100RS (Best Bike Ever!) 1959 R60 w/ Steib sidecar (Under Construction) 1988 K100RT & 1980 R100RT (Gone bye bye)

09-08-2007, 09:29 AM	#7
rideoregon Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 122	Thanks! Many thanks for the excellent and detailed information. That was exactly what I was looking for. BTW, I was at the dealership yesterday to pick up a case of oil and some filters, and I casually asked the service manager what they get for a spline lube. He said in season it's $360 + parts (i.e. the lube), but they run specials of $100 off in the winter. I asked him what exactly is included, and he said, "That's all three spline locations -- clutch and both driveshaft splines. Front to back." I'll probably let them do it this winter, but I'll buy my own lube for them to use. __________________ Ride Oregon 95 K75/3 08 Triumph Tiger

09-05-2007, 08:28 AM	#1
rideoregon Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Oregon Posts: 122	Which splines get lubed in a "spline lube"? My 95 K75, with about 22K miles on the odo, is in need of a clutch spline lube (downshifts are difficult, requiring blip of throttle to line the dogs up). But in looking at my Clymers, I note the obvious: there are splines at the other end of the driveshaft too. So my question: When we talk about a brick in need of a spline lube or a brick that's had its splines lubed, exactly what splines are we talking about? And when ensuring proper lubrication of my K-bike's splines, should I be lubing at both ends of the drive shaft? Sorry if this has been covered, but I did a search and didn't find what I was looking for. Thanks in advance. RideOregon '95 K-75 '97 R1100R

09-08-2007, 11:15 AM	#8
sgborgstrom Don't forget your towel Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bainbridge Island WA Posts: 728	Don't fold so fast RO. Take the money you would be giving to the dealer and buy whatever tools you don't already have to do the job. Since you have an R1100 too and it's going to need the same service at some point that's a $720 one time investement- plenty for some nice tools and a good workstand and money you will never have to spend again. Taking apart the back half of your K lets you get in there and clean up any other issues you might find along the way really efficiently. Everything is off, why put worn parts back on? (IMO this is where BMW got some of their reputation for longevity) I've been doing my own maintenance since getting my first motorcycle in 1982. For me, working on bikes is as integral a part of my overall moto-experience as putting on a helmet. __________________ Steve "...your body is not a temple, it's an amusement park. Enjoy the ride" A. Bourdain

09-08-2007, 08:16 PM	#10
BuckeyeClark Riding From The Black Dog Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Upper Sandusky, Ohio Posts: 243	Yes I suppose i could have gotten it back 1/2" without taking off the shock; however, at the time it seemed to be necessary. The spline did disengage, which freaked me out a little at first until I realized that it would slide back in. I am sure that, in the future, this job will take no more than 1/2 hour to 1 hr for me to accomplish. Thanks again.... __________________ “I intend to live forever. So far, so good." 1994 R1100RS (Best Bike Ever!) 1959 R60 w/ Steib sidecar (Under Construction) 1988 K100RT & 1980 R100RT (Gone bye bye)

09-09-2007, 02:27 AM	#11
deancox Always Curious Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Edge of the Slab, CA Posts: 239	One of the best step by step descriptions of how to do both ends of the drive is here: http://www.ibmwr.org/ktech/driveshaft-spline-lube.shtml Between this and the excellent instructions given previously, no one should fear this relatively simple procedure. __________________ Dean Cox 89 K75C IBA #31841

09-25-2007, 08:50 PM	#12
lostandwandering Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 38	The Spline Lube Part XXX I have an 87 K75S with only 11,500 miles but I don't know much of its past history. I want to do the spline lube and include the transmission input shaft. Low miles but if it hasn't been apart before it seems as if 20 year old grease should get some reinforcement by now. Anyrate, the Clymer manual calls for the use of an anti-seize lubricant on the swing arm pivot pins. Does anyone have any comment on this step? __________________ lostandwandering 87 K75S

09-25-2007, 10:39 PM	#13
deilenberger A bozo on the bus Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Spring Lake NJ, USA Posts: 4,052	Unless there is wear on the swingarm pivot bolts - there is no reason to remove them to do a spline lube. The swingarm can remain attached to the transmission as it is removed. It is helpful to remove the rear drive - mostly in the interest of reducing weight - but also to lube the rear drive input shaft. I wouldn't worry about the transmission output shaft - I have never heard of anyone destroying one - even with lots of miles and total neglect. __________________ Don Eilenberger, MOA Ambassador - http://www.eilenberger.net Spring Lk Heights NJ - NJ Shore BMW Riders Ex-lotsa beemers, '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers..

09-26-2007, 06:29 PM	#14
lostandwandering Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 38	More spline lube Thanks Don, Are there any other steps I can eliminate to simplify this process? __________________ lostandwandering 87 K75S

09-26-2007, 10:56 PM	#15
deilenberger A bozo on the bus Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Spring Lake NJ, USA Posts: 4,052	If you can get someone to help - and have the bike strapped down on a good bike lift, with a support under the engine, you can lift off the entire transmission, swing-arm and the two sideplates for the footpegs without disassembling all of it. If you're really clever - you can even leave the rear brake components in place by tying the caliper to the swing-arm. The two sideplates with footpegs make handy hand-holds putting it back on.. and you MUST make up at least 2 (I prefer 4) guide pins for sliding it back on. The IBMWR articles talk about that I believe. If you don't know about those - go to www.ibmwr.org - look under K-tech. When I'm "in form" - I've done it - with one helper in about 90 minutes, start to finish. That's with remembering exactly what tools I needed, what the disassembly sequence was, etc - familiarity from when I did the same job 3 times in a week (don't ask..) First try - leave an afternoon for it. The next time - you'll have it done in 3 hours. HTH, __________________ Don Eilenberger, MOA Ambassador - http://www.eilenberger.net Spring Lk Heights NJ - NJ Shore BMW Riders Ex-lotsa beemers, '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers..