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Thread: 1992 K75S -- wont start after police tow. no green neutral TT nor gear indicator

  1. #31
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    super glad to be part of the MOA.

    this morning i went down and was so glad when the bike started right up.

    unfortunately the fuse blew again after about 10 mins, roughly exactly the same time as it happened before.

    so we figured out the what but not the why.

    also this time i noticed that all the instruments dont work (i.e. speedo, tach, neutral light, gear indicator) guess it makes sense.

    anwyay, a fellow moto buddy here at work has an extra fuse to get me home, but now i have to figure out what is making it short out after a few mins. at least i don't have to pay for a tow.

  2. #32
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    I'll go through the schematic when I get back to my shop in a couple hours to give you a list of the possible things that are shorting.

    If you could post a picture of the loose wire you found, maybe that would help.

    In the mean time, go get a bunch of the 7.5 amp fuses. You'll probably go through several during the troubleshooting process and you need to carry several spares of both sizes in your tool tray anyway.



    LONG MAY YOUR BRICK FLY!

    Ride Safe, Ride Far, Ride Often

    Lee Fulton Forum Moderator
    3 Marakesh Red K75Ss
    Mine, Hers, Spare

  3. #33
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    The two most likely candidates are:

    heated grips (if you have them). Could have got shorted out by how they tied down your bike or the torn wire (though should be 2 conductors inside the wire). Would only show up if heated grip switch is ON. If off, fuse would not blow.


    More likely:

    The alarm system! From your previous post, it sounds like it was not properly unplugged from the main wiring harness. If the wires were just cut or torn, the hot lead is still plugged into the harness and is probably grounding out. The plug is a 5 conductor plug, so if the alarm does not have a 5 conductor plug at the end of the wires, it is not correctly disconnected and is probably the problem.

    Awaiting your observations.



    LONG MAY YOUR BRICK FLY!

    Ride Safe, Ride Far, Ride Often

    Lee Fulton Forum Moderator
    3 Marakesh Red K75Ss
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  4. #34
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    mr fulton you are the internet moto whisperer!!

    the short seems to be in the heated grips.

    I made sure the switch was in off (middle) position this morning and I made it all the way to work with full instruments.

    how can i look for the short in the grips?

  5. #35
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    First thing to do is post pictures of the loose wire you found by the front of the bike (or you can email them to me: just click on the blue 98lee at the upper left corner of any of my posts. One of the four choices that comes up will be send email).

    Also, after you have gotten SEVERAL new fuses, while you're at home, try with grips on high to make sure the wire is still shorting out (might take some movement of the handlebars to get to the right spot for the wire to ground out). Then, after it blows, replace the fuse and try to put the bars in the same position with the grips off.

    If it is indeed the grips, the fix will require removing the tank. A quick fix MIGHT be to find the offending broken wire and tape them up. It's real possible that the broken wire you found is really one of the TWO conductor wires that go to one of the grips. The quick fix would be to cut the outer black sheath back enough to expose the two (very small) insulated wires. Then cut each wire back to it's individual insulation, then tape each end so that the two wires do not short to each other. Then try again with the grips on high. If it doesn't blow, you will still have one grip that will work.

    If it still blows, the wire end you taped will be the one that goes into the hanlde bars instead of the othe half that brings the power from under the tank. You will need to find that wire or do the job right and remove the tank.

    Did you ever find the 5 conductor plug on the alarm wires?

    Awaiting feedback. ( We'll get you there eventually!)



    LONG MAY YOUR BRICK FLY!

    Ride Safe, Ride Far, Ride Often

    Lee Fulton Forum Moderator
    3 Marakesh Red K75Ss
    Mine, Hers, Spare

  6. #36
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    photo.jpg


    here's a pic of the 'offending' wire. it comes from under the gas tank, kind of on the left side. its silver strands wire, and it looks like it was attached somewhere due to how 'clean' the bare end looks.

    (forgive the coat of dirt on my bike, haven't got her cleaned up yet since she got out of jail)

  7. #37
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    That wire looks pretty small and looks like a single conductor. I can't think of anything in that area that would match it. (alarm maybe) Try taking a razor knife and slitting it length wise to see if there is really two tiny wires inside. If there is, we need to know what color each wire's insulation is.

    If it is indeed only one set of stranded wires inside the black insulation, we need to see if it is the source of the short (key and kill switch on, touch end of wire to fork triple clamps, see if it sparks or if the fuse blows.

    Here are the wires for the heated grips that come out from under the tank. The one on the left comes from the switch on the dash and goes under the tank. The outside of the sheath is about 3/16".

    The one on the right comes from each grip (there is one pair for each grip) and runs through the handle bars and out through a hole in the center of the bars and under the tank. One inner wire is black and the other is brown. The outside sheath is a bit less than 5/32". If the wire was ripped loose, it might have streched to around 1/8" before it broke.


    wires.JPG




    LONG MAY YOUR BRICK FLY!

    Ride Safe, Ride Far, Ride Often

    Lee Fulton Forum Moderator
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    Mine, Hers, Spare

  8. #38
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    This is a good one, I like these. Maybe others not so much.

    We might be looking at two different diagrams but mine leads back to the ignition switch. However, as I read it, past the ignitions switch, heated grips or the phantom alarm system would be in the mix.

    Looking at a heated grip diagram, it's an NO and grounds are past the heaters. If the switch is off, no circuit. If the switch is bad and you created circuit, one element shorted to ground, the fuse should go the nano-second the ignitions switch is on.

    I'm going to throw a wild one out there: Do the brake lights work?
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  9. #39
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    brake lights work, been checking often due to electrical situation.

    curious tho to ask, i think i am running with blown fuse in the 4th position to no noticeable effect. what is that circuit?

    fuses have been surprisingly harder to come by in manhattan, but i'm hope to make auto parts store in brooklyn this afternoon for a sackful. probly ride out to floyd bennet field afterwards for parking lot practice, anyone been out there? its fun.

    will finally get to wash the bike and do some tests with fuses to blow, but i strongly think the problem is in the grips.

    i'm confident the alarm component i removed wasn't connected anywhere, but i know there is a bunch of fantom wiring and 'hacky' work in the wiring with disconnecting the alarm. viz. the PO told me the reason the ABS light blinking due to removal of alarm system (which i also think is not true, he wasn't very honest or forthcoming) and the 'receiving end' of the wire bunch i took out is hanging out the right side of the frame under the fairing. (i'll post a pic later)

    besides the alarm red herring, based on the pics you showed, i'm getting starting to think the idea that the tow had anything to do with it is also not valid. lets say the bike was not locked up at all (my bad) the easiest way to tow it is to just wheel it away. would they even hook it anywhere and if they did is there a way the hooking up could cause current problem?

    regarding the grips, the last time i rode the bike it was a snowstorm. talk about teaching moment, holy **** it was one of the most visceral life lessons i've ever gotten. it was also the first time i ever dropped the bike. everything was slippery and as i mounted the bike, i lost her and she dropped onto her sidecase and right side grip. 1st lesson was that i was able to pick up the moto from the ground unassisted (thought i could but wasn't sure, the adrenaline was helpful). then i drove it to work and learned how 'fun' it is to drive a motorcycle in traffic in an active snowstorm with ice and snow on the ground. never again. i am confident the heated grips were working during this drive.

    so, maybe dropping it is a factor. sorry for leaving that out it just wasn't fresh and an unpleasant memory

    i don't think the grips have been working at all since i picked it up, but i haven't been on it for long enough time to be sure about the drive home, its possible they were working and the issue happened as i perceive it to have happened right when i pulled up to park. however now that i see the pattern, i think i can reconstruct it to this: when i first saw the moto at the tow pound, i know the green neutral light was working at this moment because it gave me confidence to press the starter, which i did and the bike started right up like a champ. probly the heated grips were 'on' at this moment and the fuse blew right away. when i returned to the bike after 1 hour paying up and doing paperwork, i was too nervous due to them yelling at me it was taking too long to put on my gloves and etc. so i might not have noticed no neutral light in my rush to start up and roll out, and since i'm 'new careful' driver and i don't need the speedo in city traffic, its possible i didn't notice the whole ride home. i have the blinky red abs light, which also makes it harder for me to notice the new red light on (esp when focused on traffic and fresh on the bike after month away)

    regardless getting it running sans tow is a godsend. thank you for all the clues and tips. if i can't find something 'obvious' when i'm cleaning it up today, i will probably go on a waiting list for a mechanic i found, though i have a feeling electrical work like this is the most PITA kinda thing for them to get involved in somehow.
    Last edited by mountainista; 03-27-2014 at 09:09 PM.

  10. #40
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    I had the same issue with my 93 K1100LT. In my case the resistance wires for the low heat circuit of the grips fried. It is under the tank on the LH side. Sure glad the fuse blew instead of melting all the other wires under the tank.
    Jeff
    93 K1100LT
    03 K1200GT

  11. #41
    Happily Bent dieselyoda's Avatar
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    I have a trick for finding the exact problem you described but it takes tools and patience. I get a circuit breaker put it in the circuit. I then use a compass, like a boyscout compass and wait for the current to build in the circuit breaker, scan the machine with the compass. The needle will get me close after a few tries and then, bang on and I have my short.

    The problem is always when the circuit breaker pops, I have to start over.

    The other way, time and patience required, wire a test light into the fuse between buss and load. If it lights up bright, dead short. If it lights up dim, I start pulling connectors until the light goes out. It gets you into the circuit causing the problem and the figuring out why requires a sit down with a beer and a good multimeter.

    Winter riding in the snow is never a good idea. I can relate. I only have a 5 month season of riding at best and I quit riding the first hint of frost. If you are squiggly on two wheels, so is everybody else, they just don't know it yet.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  12. #42
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    Thank You! RESOLVED!

    hey just want to say again, thank you! to everyone for tips on this thread.

    thanks to your help i was able to avoid towing the moto to a shop.

    in the end, i took it to my new mechanic (tom at motorcycle works in brooklyn)

    the problem was indeed caused by my dropping the bike, a simple adjustment of the bars fixed the short and the heated grips started working again as a bonus.

    in the end, the whole deal only cost me $20. if i didn't have MOA membership i probly would have had the bike towed ($75min) and then have them start looking for problem in the wrong place. thanks to your tips i was able to avoid having it towed, and the extra time let me cool off and track down the actual cause of the problem instead of being distracted by the towing nightmare.

    my brick is flying again! thank you!

  13. #43
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    I hate to tell you, adjusting the bars did not SOLVE the problem. You eliminated the symptom (blowing fuses).

    The PROBLEM is that you have an uninsulated hot wire (broken, torn, or cut insulation) somewhere between the underside of the tank, the switch, or the grips, that was occasionally touching ground (frame, inside of handlebars, etc).

    The solution is to find that bare section of wire and insulate it. It's quite possible that it is in the end of the grip where you dropped it.

    If you'd care to PM or email me your phone #, I could call you and talk you through this and the other issues you have.



    LONG MAY YOUR BRICK FLY!

    Ride Safe, Ride Far, Ride Often

    Lee Fulton Forum Moderator
    3 Marakesh Red K75Ss
    Mine, Hers, Spare

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