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Thread: '11 R1200RT will not Downshift at times

  1. #16
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wyman.winn View Post
    update....

    BMW Motorcycles of Long Beach just informed me that the female splines on the clutch friction disk have been sheared off and the input shaft splines have been damaged....other than that the motor and trans are good.....they will replace the friction disk and trans input shaft and the bike should be good to go probably next week if there is an input shaft in the US....

    maybe this failure was the cause of the poor down shifting....time will tell...

    will update when i get her back....

    thanks...

    wyman
    Actually - I was going to post that possibility as soon as you posted the failure mode*. This was a fairly common failure in the K-brick series bikes, and not unknown in Oilheads.

    You may want to press the dealership to try to determine the root cause of the failure. Typically on the other bikes where this has occurred it was finally tracked down to a transmission/engine misalignment - right from the factory.

    And yes - that's why it was difficult to downshift. Same symptoms the other models with the problem experienced.

    FWIW - this is only the 2nd time I've heard of this failure mode on the hexhead/camhead bikes... it isn't a common occurrence.

    * = the reason I didn't - I didn't want to be the harbinger of doom..
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
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  2. #17
    Registered User wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    Actually - I was going to post that possibility as soon as you posted the failure mode*. This was a fairly common failure in the K-brick series bikes, and not unknown in Oilheads.

    You may want to press the dealership to try to determine the root cause of the failure. Typically on the other bikes where this has occurred it was finally tracked down to a transmission/engine misalignment - right from the factory.

    And yes - that's why it was difficult to downshift. Same symptoms the other models with the problem experienced.

    FWIW - this is only the 2nd time I've heard of this failure mode on the hexhead/camhead bikes... it isn't a common occurrence.

    * = the reason I didn't - I didn't want to be the harbinger of doom..
    the clutch friction disk and input shaft are in the qualified hands of the BMW Master Mechanics at BMW MC of Long Beach....i have heard that several are involved in the repair....

    i wish i had know of this "possible" problem before it happened.....

    will report on if this "fixes" the downshifting problem....

    wyman
    2013 R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic
    2002 V-Strom DL1000 - sold
    2008 KLR650 - sold

  3. #18
    Registered User wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Shifting problem solved!!!

    Update on my 2013 R1200RT clutch/trans/shifting problem....

    well, picked up Sassy from BMW Motorcycles of Long Beach yesterday and trailered her home to Solvang....after arriving i took her for a VERY short "let's see" ride....all went well....no glitches, a very good thing...

    this morning after returning the trailer i took Sassy out for a spirited ride in the Santa Ynez Valley.......

    WOW!!! is all i can say.....the impeccable workmanship at BMW LB did the trick....ok, sure, they did fix the sheared splines on BOTH the friction disk AND input shaft, but they must have done some double secret assembly of the part....ZERO SHIFTING ISSUES....either up (never a problem before) OR down.....she shifts like a Japanese tranny....no clunking, smooth, precise and predictable.....FINALLY!!!!!

    sure, it took two weeks to get Sassy back, but it was well worth the wait....))

    pics of the damage....BTW, the BMW LB Techs have never seen this problem before on any of the 2010+ RT....even the police motors....go figure...

    Clutch Small.JPG

    Input Small.JPG

    thanks,

    wyman
    2013 R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic
    2002 V-Strom DL1000 - sold
    2008 KLR650 - sold

  4. #19
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    Is this a first for the 2013 RT? I don't recall anyone else ever reporting a clutch mangled like that on a hexhead/camhead RT that new.

    The misalignment thing with the older oilheads has been well covered on this site by very good descriptions but this may be a first for this recent an RT. Wonder if it means more will show up eventually or if this will just stay the oddball event.

    It would be helpful if you could get an opinion from the guys at the dealership whether they think the problem was alignment, lube, metallurgy or what??

    Now if I could only get my 06 K1200GT to shift that well- it shifts with a thunk that can jar your teeth..
    But the good news is that its gear indicator (a 1 off, they redesigned the part the next year) that started to read wrong gears in below freezing weather has magically returned to proper operation now that its warm. One less thing to fix in the fleet..

  5. #20
    Registered User wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    Is this a first for the 2013 RT? I don't recall anyone else ever reporting a clutch mangled like that on a hexhead/camhead RT that new.

    The misalignment thing with the older oilheads has been well covered on this site by very good descriptions but this may be a first for this recent an RT. Wonder if it means more will show up eventually or if this will just stay the oddball event.

    It would be helpful if you could get an opinion from the guys at the dealership whether they think the problem was alignment, lube, metallurgy or what??

    Now if I could only get my 06 K1200GT to shift that well- it shifts with a thunk that can jar your teeth..
    But the good news is that its gear indicator (a 1 off, they redesigned the part the next year) that started to read wrong gears in below freezing weather has magically returned to proper operation now that its warm. One less thing to fix in the fleet..
    i have heard that alignment was a possible cause in the early 1100 and 1150s....but that was discounted by another with much more kknowledge than I....metallurgy....possibly the cause but doubtful, there are thousands of LEO motors out there that do not seem to have any problem, or at least it is not being reported.....lube??? in looking at the RepRom VERY closely, i see ZERO reference to lube in the replacement of the friction disk....and ANY lube in that area would fly outwards to contaminate the friction disk.....and in my many, many auto clutch replacements in my lifetime, i have never lubed the friction disk or input shaft splines......never....

    i think this was a fluke,, quite possibly from Mother BMW....the Techs at BMW of Long Beach were just as amazed at this issue as were many here.....no clue either....

    wyman
    2013 R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic
    2002 V-Strom DL1000 - sold
    2008 KLR650 - sold

  6. #21
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    You certainly can't use a lube glob that gets pushed out when you slide the assembly in place- it will only end up on the plate as you note. But some judicious use of moly paste carefully applied won't hurt. You're right about the RepROM saying nothing about it but then it says virtually nothing anyway- what it does say can be condensed to "no need to look for balance position, use the alignment tool when you put it back" as almost of the rest is even less informative boilerplate text.

    Our local club hasn't seen issues that indicate alignment issues of any significant type with hexheads/camheads. Those that have had seal problems of any type have generally had them cured by simple replacements and not needed repeats.

    Anyway, glad its working well. If someone else reports this same issue your thread will be of help to them.

  7. #22
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    Wyman, glad to hear your shifting issues have been solved, even if it means you did without your bike for a while. I only wish I could find a solution to my shifting issues. It is so bad going into 2nd (from 3rd) I'm thinking of trading up to a new wethead just to get better shifting. It truly does ruin an otherwise great bike.

    Jim
    Canton. OH

  8. #23
    Registered User wyman.winn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimsk View Post
    Wyman, glad to hear your shifting issues have been solved, even if it means you did without your bike for a while. I only wish I could find a solution to my shifting issues. It is so bad going into 2nd (from 3rd) I'm thinking of trading up to a new wethead just to get better shifting. It truly does ruin an otherwise great bike.

    Jim
    Canton. OH
    Jim....

    i would consult with your dealership and maybe have them look into the clutch/input shaft....maybe they can contact BMW MC of Long Beach and speak with Paul (the Master Tech that worked on my RT).....maybe he has some insight....

    but all i can say is the RT is a different bike....shifts smoothly up or down, just like a Japanese tranny.....

    i too was thinking of trading her in....but after this fix, Sassy is a keeper...

    good luck my friend....wish i could be more help...

    wyman
    2013 R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic
    2002 V-Strom DL1000 - sold
    2008 KLR650 - sold

  9. #24
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    Well, Wyman I will be at my dealers door when they open...seems I have a puddle of oil under my bike that appears to be coming from the rear main seal. Could be the transmission input shaft I guess, but it does not smell like gear lube.

    I just got home from a 4,000+ mile trip to Texas / New Mexico to include the MotoGP in Austin. I now recall the last day or two of the trip when I shut the bike off or sitting at a red light I smelled something hot. Looking under the bike I can see where it has been dripping and blowing back to where the pipes come together in front of the catalytic converter.

    Of course this happens right before I planned to take off to go to the Georgia Mountain Rally...dammit. My bike has 22K on it and is of course still under warranty. This is almost the same mileage when my 2003 K1200RS rear main seal let go.

    I have no faith that when I get it back it will shift any better, but maybe so...maybe it is time to take another look at a 2014GS.

    Jim
    Canton, OH

  10. #25
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Nice follow-up Wyman
    OM
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  11. #26
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    Update to Downshifting Issue with '11 RT - Not the clutch!

    After two trips to my local BMW dealer, I still had the occasional downshifting issue with my '11 RT. I thought it was just a cold weather issue but found it just kept getting worse, even as summer approached. I decided to put the bike on the center stand and look up under it and discovered that the shift linkage connecting the transmission to the shift lever was very loose (almost disconnected). Since the bike was still under warranty, I trailered it back to the dealer and told them what the problem was. They tightened the linkage and it is now shifting normally. I don't know why they didn't find this but am glad it didn't come all the way apart and leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere.

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