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Thread: "consumer reports" ...well, reports

  1. #16
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    I have a Yamaha Super Tenere in addition to my RT and have no doubt it will be more reliable over the long haul. They just don't break. That said, there is a level of refinement one gets from a BMW that is very attractive. It is subjective and some guys notice and appreciate it and others don't. As someone said - it's not all about reliability, assuming a baseline level to begin with that is acceptable.

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  2. #17
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    This sounds like another CR article thread.

    I read CR and things like it when I purchase appliances, computers etc. Magazines like CR help me sort through features and problems before I make the decision what I want.

    I have looked at CR when I shop for cages. These haul me back and forth to work in the winter cold and snow. They haul various members of the Pit Crew so reliability and how they handle car seats can be an issue.

    I use my Roadster to ride to work, and in the past have used various sports cars to do the same. I read a few enthusiasts rags but never CR in making these decisions. I am a rider and shade tree mechanic. I don't buy motorcycles and sports cars their reliability ratings. I buy them for my soul.

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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    I don't buy motorcycles and sports cars their reliability ratings. I buy them for my soul.
    Consumer Reports doesn't have one of those.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    Consumer Reports doesn't have one of those.
    Good thing, or ya might get a blender that sounds good and handles well but doesn't make good drinks, lol. In most cases I appreciate their objectivity. Hard to find it elsewhere.

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  5. #20
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    I can believe that Yamaha was rated as very reliable. I had a 2002 Yamaha FZ1 that I rode for about 3 years. From the day I bought it until the day I sold it, never gave me any trouble. All I ever did was change the oil, and synch the carbs a couple of times. I sold it and bought a Ducati ST4S, a fun bike, but definitely a high maintenance gal compared to the Yamaha.

  6. #21
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    I have never trusted Consumer Reports. There are just too many variables to measure reliability, etc. However one CAN get clues about a brand's general direction. Most of us would hardly object at the findings of CR when for many years, they rated Honda and Toyota pretty highly and the American automakers relatively low during that period. And in doing so (plus the public's outcry, and the loss of sales) the Americans were prompted to better their quality. Only one that has done so IMO has been Ford.

    Having said that, it is also common to hear people "defend" their own particular brand favorite when it shows low ratings. Always "some other way" that they should have evaluated it. It was present in this thread as some defended BMW that way.

    Also, simply asking consumers their opinion can be biased in several ways. First the "group" that they selected to ask. Also, how did they "adjust" the findings to better reflect the overall group based upon the relatively few opinions submitted. How were the people giving their opinions selected to participate? How were "occurrences" evaluated? A loose screw certainly may not be as important as a transmission freeze-up. Now-a-days, virtually ANY electronic failure will leave one frustratingly stranded. Also, how did they adjust for human tendencies? For example. people who purchase something, especially something costly, often hide their purchase's faults, because they want to influence someone else to purchase the same thing. Then, on the other hand, people will sometimes go the other direction. One negative experience, and they then want to blast the whole product.

    I does seem to me, that the overall tendencies (over a long period of time) show superior reliability from the various Japanese manufacturers (including both motorcycles and autos) and lower satisfactory results from the Euro brands, followed up with the lowest marks for the American made products.
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  7. #22
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    followed up with the lowest marks for the American made products.
    So, the Honda products from the Marysville OH plant are lower quality than the home country products? I know I have doubts about my Texas-built Tacoma vs my old Deluxe 4X4. And heaven forbid, who would take a risk on one of those Bimmers from SC?

    I think your statement was referring to American designs, management and quality control. When you eliminate those factors, products made in the US seem to be the same as those from Germany or Japan.
    Last edited by 36654; 02-21-2014 at 03:01 PM.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    So, the Honda products from the Marysville OH plant are lower quality than the home country products? I know I have doubts about my Texas-built Tacoma vs my old Deluxe 4X4. And heaven forbid, who would take a risk on one of those Bimmers from SC?

    I think your statement was referring to American designs, management and quality control. When you eliminate those factors, products made in the US seem to be the same as those from Germany or Japan.
    "American designs, management and quality control." The only thing left is manufacturing. I live fairly close to Marysville, and my son lives about 2 miles from th Greenville, SC BMW plant. Both have far superior reputations than any American made (American brand) auto facilities. The only other factor absent from your listing is manufacturing, and the presence of unions have a lot to do with that. When one factors in unions, the quality level dips heavily!

    American workers in those conditions simply do not have the 'culture" of quality that others have. Remember Ford's pseudo slogan, "At Ford. quality is Job 1"? Americans all believed that even through the Pinto (piece of junk) and many, if not all, of the autos that followed.

    I would bet, that if you put the question of which brands had the best quality reputation, and eliminated auto workers from answering, the answers would decidedly line up with either Toyota or Honda tops on the list! This has been true for many years. That long of a run, if there were a problem, it would have shown up. I would bet that BMW would never show up near the top - expensive, yes, quality, no!

    But even then, nearly all foreign brands would still do much better than their American made counterparts. Duh? Of course, I am talking about American companies, General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, and that paragon of quality. Harley Davidson.
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    When one factors in unions, the quality level dips heavily!
    The Spandau plant is unionized.
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  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    The Spandau plant is unionized.
    So? What is your point?
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  11. #26
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    So? What is your point?
    "When one factors in unions, the quality level dips heavily!"
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  12. #27
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    CR never does and never did test every product from every category, so what's the point for their existence?
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  13. #28
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommcgee View Post
    CR never does and never did test every product from every category, so what's the point for their existence?
    Some of the products like with motorcycles, they write reports on are not tested by them. Their report is based on reader surveys and targets reliability only. If you want appliance reliability and will accept appliance performance, CR is the magazine for you. If you want performance, fun, a machine with soul and a personality, CR might not be your best choice when making a decision. A bike that is perfect for one person might be totally unsuitable for another regardless of their reliability.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  14. #29
    Kawa Afterthought weschmann's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    "When one factors in unions, the quality level dips heavily!"
    Not sure if this is a troll question but feel compelled to answer, since no supporting evidence was added to substantiate the claim of a relationship between union shop and quality. Having been on both sides of the bargaining table, and mostly on the management side at Chrysler, I should probably by job title, agree with your statement, but from a practical standpoint, there just isn't much evidence to support your position. And I say that with a wealth of experience with some major union/management labor disputes under my belt, where a couple of times I felt that my safety was in jeopardy on the production floor, so I don't have much real love for automotive unions. Production systems are managed by process architecture, and if managed correctly, produces high standards of conformity. The thing that affects quality the most, is the many supply chain members who contribute widgets to the final assembly that may or may not be up to quality standards on any particular batch number. Which is why you see recalls that target certain Vin numbers based on specific production days.... So, from an emotional perspective, I can understand blaming quality issues on union operations; however I would need to see specific data that tracks quality levels between two plants (one union and one non-union) using the same processes and equipment (robots, automation etc.) and suppliers before acknowledging any weight to this perspective.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by weschmann View Post

    "When one factors in unions, the quality level dips heavily!"

    Not sure if this is a troll question but feel compelled to answer, since no supporting evidence was added to substantiate the claim of a relationship between union shop and quality.
    Note that this is a quote from a previous poster, not offered up by 36654. See this post:

    http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthre...l=1#post925042
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