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Thread: Why recalls anyway?

  1. #31
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Ah yes, construction equipment. Frequently with a master switch, then the "normal" key operation. There was a large recall to add a shield over the solenoid on the starters. Due to the configuration, the contacts were open to starting the machine with a screwdriver. A local guy used the screwdriver to start the shovel-dozer one morning, the bucket lever was in curl, the machine started and when the arms came together, it popped his head like a mellon. There were many recalls to add a cover to this part of the starters.
    OM
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Only problem with that methodology is that I know of several BMW guys whose EWS rings failed while on long trips. That meant they got inconveniently stranded first - bike ended up at some BMW dealer later, and only at that time did they learn their VIN indicated a problem.

    Not a good scenario, when BMW knew there were X number of bad units in circulation. This is where casting the 'big net' of a recall would have done the greater good.

    Reliability and reputation are close cousins.
    There will be no recall, if the issue is not safety related. Read all the recall notices. There is always a description of a safety issue as a result of a possible failure. That's just how it works. There are certain procedures the manufacturer must follow to satisfy the NTSB with a recall campaign. This is not done just to address a technical issue. Even if it happens to 98% of all vehicles.

  3. #33
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Good to understand what a recall actually is.

    In the USA recalls can be legally mandated by the federal government for TWO reasons
    Safety concern
    Vehicle pollutes beyond requirements

    This leaves lots of other things to the manufacturers' discretion and leads also to debates as to what safety is. For example as a rider with >25 years riding without a fuel gauge, I find it amusing that some consider failed fuel strips a safety concern ... and a recall hasn't happened yet, has it?

    It's also good to recognize that in almost all instances the owner will pay for design/manufacturing defects outside the two categories listed, as the owner effectively buys the original warranty and of course clearly pays for extensions. It's the same thing as buying insurance.

    The instances where not-required fixes are done free via manufacturer good will are rare.

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  4. #34
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    There will be no recall, if the issue is not safety related. Read all the recall notices. There is always a description of a safety issue as a result of a possible failure. That's just how it works. There are certain procedures the manufacturer must follow to satisfy the NTSB with a recall campaign. This is not done just to address a technical issue. Even if it happens to 98% of all vehicles.
    Thanks - makes sense.

    Don't like it, but makes sense.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Ah yes, construction equipment. Frequently with a master switch, then the "normal" key operation. There was a large recall to add a shield over the solenoid on the starters. Due to the configuration, the contacts were open to starting the machine with a screwdriver. A local guy used the screwdriver to start the shovel-dozer one morning, the bucket lever was in curl, the machine started and when the arms came together, it popped his head like a mellon. There were many recalls to add a cover to this part of the starters.
    OM
    Really now?

    This is beyond what we needed to know!
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

  6. #36
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Ah yes, construction equipment. Frequently with a master switch, then the "normal" key operation. There was a large recall to add a shield over the solenoid on the starters. Due to the configuration, the contacts were open to starting the machine with a screwdriver. A local guy used the screwdriver to start the shovel-dozer one morning, the bucket lever was in curl, the machine started and when the arms came together, it popped his head like a mellon. There were many recalls to add a cover to this part of the starters.
    OM
    Yet more proof that some behaviors are their own punishment.
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  7. #37
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    Really now?

    This is beyond what we needed to know!
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    Yet more proof that some behaviors are their own punishment.
    Well a number of things have gone on here that resulted in the operators death.
    1) Accessing the starter has always been a way to start something. (we are not too far from me explaining how to hot-wire a car)
    2) A guard over the starter from the factory would have at least made this practice much harder.
    3) In the old "familiarity breeds contempt" adage the operator may have done this hundreds of times.
    4) Someone left the bucket in the "curl" position.
    5) Someone has in their sig line "experience is something you get just after you need it"
    6) Luck has run out.
    7) I don't think the operator set off to crush his own skull.
    Frequently when guards are added there is no visual to reinforce the consequences.
    The only people that don't make mistakes are the ones that do nothing.
    OM
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  8. #38
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Uhmm, I meant to say in my experience, safety was the only issue for a recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omega Man View Post
    Well a number of things have gone on here that resulted in the operators death.
    1) Accessing the starter has always been a way to start something. (we are not too far from me explaining how to hot-wire a car)
    2) A guard over the starter from the factory would have at least made this practice much harder.
    3) In the old "familiarity breeds contempt" adage the operator may have done this hundreds of times.
    4) Someone left the bucket in the "curl" position.
    5) Someone has in their sig line "experience is something you get just after you need it"
    6) Luck has run out.
    7) I don't think the operator set off to crush his own skull.
    Frequently when guards are added there is no visual to reinforce the consequences.
    The only people that don't make mistakes are the ones that do nothing.
    OM
    Even though the manufacturers tried, they couldn't predict stupid. I even went out to recover an excavator the operator drowned himself and the machine in while breaking a beaver dam, down stream of the dam. How do you put a warning label on that? You can't put a recall notice on every D8N because they weren't made to go ice fishing.....................

    What I was trying to add was perspective that regardless of the type of machine, the only experience I have ever had with recalls is safety related.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    Even though the manufacturers tried, they couldn't predict stupid. I even went out to recover an excavator the operator drowned himself and the machine in while breaking a beaver dam, down stream of the dam. How do you put a warning label on that? You can't put a recall notice on every D8N because they weren't made to go ice fishing.....................

    What I was trying to add was perspective that regardless of the type of machine, the only experience I have ever had with recalls is safety related.
    While working in a nationally known plastics manufacturer, the company was obsessed (for political reasons) to eliminate all situations that could cause accidents. They went to extreme measures, only to find out that people would just circumvent in some new way!

    But ... the company at least LOOKED like it cared for people, but the practice gave them lots of protection from government intrusion, and law suits!

    Also, my brother was a pretty high "official" in the now defunct Hoover company (sweepers and many other electric appliances) and he left the company after many years because to him, they really didn't care about safety (either in the manufacturing plant, or in the products).
    "The difference between death and taxes is that death doesn't change every time congress meets." - Will Rogers

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