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Thread: what are the chances?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    I take into consideration that this topic is pretty much a personal decision.

    My 2 reasons for using the centerstand rather than the sidestand are these: 1) I still take seriously some of the old timer's suggestion that when leaning, the boxer engines will drain some of the oil into the left jug/piston. and 2) I don't want to do ANYTHING to have my Beemer look like a Harley!!!

    As far as the physics go. I can see how the two different methods actually put the three contact points (sidestand: two tires and 1 stand, centerstand: two stand legs and 1 tire patch) with slightly different chances of tipping. With sidestand, two wheels could roll much more easily if ground is not level or if bike is bumped - especially from behind. With centerstand, bike could also be bumped forward and thus get stand to go "over center" but that would take a heck of a bump, but not when bike is not on level ground but facing downward. That is why I always use centerstand and point bike UP, Sidestand in this situation, whether pointing UP or DOWN, would allow 2 of the three contact points to roll. Wow - now that's scary!!I really think that we need to have all the owners take a vote and then we can see which stand is the correct one to use! Before someone blasts me, I am joking!!!
    noobie bikers learn in Motorcycling 101 (aka MSF's BRC) that you always park a bike in gear, never neutral. Eliminates that entire "roll off the stand" factor.
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  2. #32
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Side stand = immutable triangle.
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  3. #33
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    What's the chance of that?

    I was on a vintage road race team back in the 90's. Road my '74 R90/6 down to Daytona Bike Week, then rode down to West Palm Beach to crew on the team at Moroso Race Track. After the races were over and the team was headed home, I was fixxen to head south to the Keys. I then noticed my sidestand spring gone and sidestand was flopping loose. Wired it up with a hanger out of the hotel room. Rode back out to the track and found the spring at our race pit, broken and useless. That wire hanger made a nice side stand hanger. On that same bike a couple years earlier, a socalled buddy of mine had been to the Missouri State rally. coming home we stopped and rode down to the Wilderness Rally Campground. Back up at the top of the hill, my buddy said my rear wheel waslooking out of wack. Got off checked it out and 30 spokes were broke. He said he had a headache and took off. I rode home 175 miles with 10 good spokes on my rear wheel. What's the chance of that? PS Never rode with that 'buddy' again.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    noobie bikers learn in Motorcycling 101 (aka MSF's BRC) that you always park a bike in gear, never neutral. Eliminates that entire "roll off the stand" factor.
    BMW 101: Never park a BMW boxer on the sidestand unless only as a last resort. After 40 years, I have yet to see an old timer park the bike on the sidestand. And...have been told by many never to do that!
    Last edited by jimmylee; 11-23-2013 at 01:36 PM.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    BMW 101: Never park a BMW boxer on the sidestand unless only as a last resort. After 40 years, I have yet to see an old timer park the bike on the sidestand. And...have been told by many never to do that!
    So ... this question is from a "newbie", not to riding but new to BMWs: is that old adage true? I agree that BMW oldtimers rarely if ever park on the sidestand, but is it really true that they leak oil into the lower (left side) cylinder head? Or is it only lore? Perhaps used to be true, but no longer?
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by royce View Post
    but is it really true that they leak oil into the lower (left side) cylinder head? Or is it only lore? Perhaps used to be true, but no longer?
    I think it's pretty clear they can do this. Oil is splashing around up to the point of shutting off the bike. If the bike is immediately put on the sidestand, that spashed oil on the cylinder walls will not begin to trickle and pool up against the underside of the rings. That oil can then seep past the rings into the combustion chamber. If the unlikely situation where the ring gaps have lined up, the oil will flow quite easily past the rings.
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by royce View Post
    So ... this question is from a "newbie", not to riding but new to BMWs: is that old adage true? I agree that BMW oldtimers rarely if ever park on the sidestand, but is it really true that they leak oil into the lower (left side) cylinder head? Or is it only lore? Perhaps used to be true, but no longer?
    I am not sure to whom you are referring as being a "newbie." However, i can assure you that I am not, either to motorcycling or to BMW's. I have owned and completely rebuilt a R50/2 and a R90/6. I now own a '78 R100/7. I am not a newbie.

    You folks slay me with your not-very-well-thought-out assumptions. And...your insistence on just simply stating your opinions but you have to do so by attacking the others who disagree with you or who cite information that you don't like.

    The original attacker could have simply stated his view like this: "The way to avoid the wheels rolling while using the sidestand would be to put the bike in gear." Period!

    Why was the attack necessary? And you ignorantly followed suit.

    That says something about both of you.

    As pertaining to your question. I am pretty positive that all of the airheads and vintages prior to 1980 DID, indeed, let oil drain down into the left combustion chamber - passing by the piston and rings (if the gaps happened to be aligned at the time) and also up & down through the pushrod tubes. I will have to let others answer this as I am sure there is someone who has tested this. I personally DO know, that when the oil drains back down into the pan, it will be affected by the leaning of the bike.

    As to the later boxers, I have no knowledge either from others or from experience.

    Finally, don't make fun of those "old timers" as many of them have a plethora of BMW's and have been actively owning them for dozens of years. i really respect (not necessarily always agree) their knowledge and opinions.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    Side stand = immutable triangle.
    immutable means "unchangeable." Do you really mean that? It NEVER changes? I am wondering, then, why some of the bikes parked with sidestands fall over?

  9. #39
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    In the shop, most of "my" bikes are typically on the centerstand to make more room...Helen's are typically on the sidestand,her K12S doesn't have one anyways...she's in Voni's camp on why Watching her take a RT off the centerstand was a treat...for me.

    Helen's 1150 R at 104K seems to fog the mosquitoes at start-up if not ridden for a few days...seems older K's had the smoke issue,right Paul? I am new to Airheads ,but haven't had a smoker by parking on sidestand for prolonged periods...yet.

    Have seen many bikes blow over...some in a not-so pretty line with a big gust from old habits. Our's were still standing on their 3- point perch...just sayin'.
    What the heck is that sidestand for if you don't use it? Just remember to put that bad boy up on the Airheads when riding off...exciting if you forget!
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  10. #40
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Balderdash! Voni has had several Airheads, several K75s and several Oilheads. In her million plus miles she has parked on the center stand exactly zero times. She has actually put her bike on the centerstand a couple of times just to see if she could, or to repair a tire. But parked - never!

    Other than in the shop, I can only recall parking my bikes on the centerstand a handful of times myself.

    I think the old-timers who started this legend probably had engines with bad rings and thought the smoke from a few drops of oil was somehow a sign of their impending demise. Or they wanted style points based on those nice illustrations in the old Owners Manuals which showed a stylish dismount, holding the bike with one thumb and forefinger, while putting the bike on the centerstand, all dressed in their (now) vintage one-piece German leathers. The truth is that in those days - can you say /5 - the sidestands were sufficiently self-retractingly crappy that the centerstand might have made sense.

    The real answer is - do whatever you want. There are some circumstances where one or the other absolutely makes the most sense: centerstand to change a tire and sidestand with a decent foot if in the grass. In the privacy of your own garage it usually fails to matter, and for maximum style points all lined up and backed in at the curb at the Dairy Queen do what your buddies do if you must.
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  11. #41
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    immutable means "unchangeable." Do you really mean that? It NEVER changes? I am wondering, then, why some of the bikes parked with sidestands fall over?
    Hot soft asphalt, mud or parked in neutral would be a good reason

    At the Gilette Rally after the big storm...hard ground that turned very soft and a LOT of wind...very ugly sight at sunrise
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    SABMWRA MOA Club#62's Flat Fixer/ current forum moderator
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by henzilla View Post
    Have seen many bikes blow over...some in a not-so pretty line with a big gust from old habits. Our's were still standing on their 3- point perch...just sayin'.
    What the heck is that sidestand for if you don't use it? Just remember to put that bad boy up on the Airheads when riding off...exciting if you forget!
    I agree the sidestand is there to be used, and I use it from time to time. It definitely was true that the "word" was in the old days never to park an airhead on the sidestand unless you have to. The reasons were those explained above about oil seepage. It was common to see an airhead just start up after a park on the sidestand at a restaurant to have a "puff" of oil smoke out of the left cylinder only.

    I now use my sidestand on a regular basis - due to some advice from an Old-timer in my BMW club, and also due to someone on this site.

    I am getting older and when I have a bag bungee corded to the back of my seat, I don't have the ability to swing my leg over the bike and the seat, and the bag as well. My "ritual" now is, I park the bike using the center stand. When I come back out, I take the bike off the centerstand, put down the sidestand, and then use it to help me "stabalize" the bike while I lift my right leg over the seat. Short riders have had this problem for years. I then start the bike, straighten it up, and make sure to have the sidestand pop up on its own by the spring. I also do the reverse when dismounting. I put the sidestand down to steady the bike while I get off, then proceed to put the bike on the centerstand.

    This method is used by lots of older riders. It makes it much easier for us, and all of those vertically challenged riders as well!

    However, after all this thread. I am sure people have their own preferences. This is mine. I have stated the reasons above. Primarily the oil issue is my number 1 reason.

  13. #43
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimmylee View Post
    BMW 101: Never park a BMW boxer on the sidestand unless only as a last resort. After 40 years, I have yet to see an old timer park the bike on the sidestand. And...have been told by many never to do that!
    You have that backwards--I'm an old timer and think the only use for the center stand is maintenance and parking in your garage. Maintenance also includes correcting an empty fuel tank condition. Never used center stand anywhere else.

    First principle of BMW rallying is never park next to a BMW that's on it's center stand--can you say dominos?

    They give away sidestand "pucks" at rallies. I have some nice ones from Top O' the Rockies.
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  14. #44
    Registered User jad01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by royce View Post
    ...leak oil into the lower (left side) cylinder head?
    I read a tech article by Oak awhile back that mentioned airheads smoking if oil settled in the left-side combustion chamber when parked on the sidestand. He recommended when shutting the bike off but before dismounting, stay seated with the bike upright or even tilted slightly to the right, count to five (to let the hot oil drain back to the crankcase/pan from the left cylinder), and then put it on the sidestand. For what it's worth, I use whichever stand is most appropriate for the circumstance (so my springs wear evenly ), but have practiced Oak's suggestion when parking on the sidestand and have yet to have any start-up smoke.
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  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    Balderdash! Voni has had several Airheads, several K75s and several Oilheads. In her million plus miles she has parked on the center stand exactly zero times. She has actually put her bike on the centerstand a couple of times just to see if she could, or to repair a tire. But parked - never!

    Other than in the shop, I can only recall parking my bikes on the centerstand a handful of times myself.

    I think the old-timers who started this legend probably had engines with bad rings and thought the smoke from a few drops of oil was somehow a sign of their impending demise. Or they wanted style points based on those nice illustrations in the old Owners Manuals which showed a stylish dismount, holding the bike with one thumb and forefinger, while putting the bike on the centerstand, all dressed in their (now) vintage one-piece German leathers. The truth is that in those days - can you say /5 - the sidestands were sufficiently self-retractingly crappy that the centerstand might have made sense.

    The real answer is - do whatever you want. There are some circumstances where one or the other absolutely makes the most sense: centerstand to change a tire and sidestand with a decent foot if in the grass. In the privacy of your own garage it usually fails to matter, and for maximum style points all lined up and backed in at the curb at the Dairy Queen do what your buddies do if you must.
    I agree, do what you want!
    Last edited by jimmylee; 12-01-2013 at 06:00 PM.

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