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Thread: 2002 R1150RT brake failure

  1. #16
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    Tons of comments here about bleeding routinely, Teflon brake lines, procedures. I haven't read a comment on these forums unique to Beemers.

    How on earth do you replace ONE ABS unit unless you know EXACTLY why you are spending that kind of money?

    I had a boss once that asked me how sure I was about any given problem. One time, I had an engine that kept blowing up the fuel pump drive. On that engine, it had a jack shaft for the pump drive. $1200.00 for the shaft and about $1200.00 in labor to replace. He asked me how sure I was and I replied 99%. He told me, "Go ahead, if you're wrong and it's the 1%, it comes out of your paycheck because I can't ask the customer to pay for your gambling."

    5 hours of my own time, we called it community service, drive gear end bearing was done. $10.00 in parts, 20 minutes of labor and my Christmas bonus that year was half my salary. We kept our customers.

    I'm going to keep repeating this over and over. Start simple, fix what you know, if that doesn't work, start from the beginning again. Sometimes it really sucks. I got stories just from today!
    It was a dealer.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  2. #17
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    "I can't explain it with a sound response that makes sense. "

    "fix what you know"


    Or in this case, maybe fix what you don't know?
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  3. #18
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Here is Some Simple Advice ... the kind you favor ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    GSAddict, I don't mean to be a smartass, really, honestly.
    GSAddict is a tremendous member of the BMWMOA. He frequently shares his advice, freely makes his time available by phone and offers used parts at reasonable prices and quick delivery. You shouldn't be mocking him for a cheap laugh.

    My simple advice to you: If you don't want to be smartass, then don't be one.

    Don't keep reminding people that your advice is simple, that's obvious, if at times valuable. But since you put being a smartass in play, all you needed to write was:

    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    Before you bleed the brakes or replace the (known to fail) stock brakes lines, you may want to replace a bulb. It worked for me 10 years ago.

  4. #19
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    / mod hat on /

    Folks, let's just get back to simple straightforward advice. Let's not start pushing here and poking there... Thanks...

    / mod hat off /
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  5. #20
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Poke all you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    / mod hat on /

    Folks, let's just get back to simple straightforward advice. Let's not start pushing here and poking there... Thanks...

    / mod hat off /
    I don't mind the rhetoric at all. I just have another beer and carry on certain that I know what I am doing.

    Honestly, if you start throwing $$$$ at guesses, it can add up to $$$$$$ very fast with no real end in sight. Has nobody ever changed a light bulb to only have the fuse burn out right away? Everybody installs new fuses every few months so they don't get weak? Can you look at a fuse and instantly say without testing that it hasn't melted?

    Still, all the great advice to do the basics here and a suggestion to throw $$$ at brake lines without knowing for sure. Brake lines are easy to check. No suggestions on how to check them that I can see. I will be changing my brake lines because of the vehement demand here that it must be done. There is nothing wrong with mine after 15 years but maybe, it's good advice that I won't mind gambling my own money on.

    Nobody suggested pulling the codes out of the ABS to see what is going on.

    I can tell you that if you rely on the code and don't think about what the code means, more $$$$.

    I didn't post the suggestion or the procedure because I am not familiar enough with that system to provide sound advice. I would think somebody will.

    My beer is empty, hockey game on TV starting, I am still learning how to effectively learn a 1936 South Bend 9 and I have forgotten more than I care to admit about fixing stuff.

    Talk amongst yourselves. I will check back later.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  6. #21
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    Talk amongst yourselves. I will check back later.
    \

    Please don't bother
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  7. #22
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    I'm back!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    \

    Please don't bother
    Really, can someone tell us how to pull codes from an 1150?
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  8. #23
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    I think the self test on that unit calls for 13.8 volts!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by thompsonr View Post
    When in failure mode the brake light comes on when the front brake is applied. I haven't changed the bulb but did clean the contact of the bulb and checked for corrosion in the socket. I will replace bulb.

    The battery checks at 12.80 volts with key off drops to lower 12s when key is on lower 13s running. there is no drop of amperage when in the fail mode.

    Will try the master reset. I will assume the bike needs to be running? does it need to be in the fail mode or can this be done any time?

    Thanks for the reply.

    Rick
    I understand a lot of ABS units from this era would go into default because of low battery voltage. I might give some thought to putting in a newer and better battery (Oddessy) before getting carried away to far on other things. 12.80 volts key on and low 13's tells me it might be a low battery voltage thing. The ABS computers on these bikes are pretty tough so I would be surprised if its that. Oh and visually check your front brake switch on the M/C and make sure you don't have a leaky M/C that's messing up the switch, then check bulbs. I would put my money on a weak battery.

  9. #24
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Now that is good advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by 69zeff65 View Post
    I understand a lot of ABS units from this era would go into default because of low battery voltage. I might give some thought to putting in a newer and better battery (Oddessy) before getting carried away to far on other things. 12.80 volts key on and low 13's tells me it might be a low battery voltage thing. The ABS computers on these bikes are pretty tough so I would be surprised if its that. Oh and visually check your front brake switch on the M/C and make sure you don't have a leaky M/C that's messing up the switch, then check bulbs. I would put my money on a weak battery.
    If someone could tell you how to pull a code, it might confirm the low voltage thing that everybody complains about.

    I don't like buying batteries when I'm not sure that is the problem and I can't comment on the Oddessy. I am certainly not going to buy the battery that Roger04rt has been complaining about for the last three months.

    After the comment about low battery voltage, try starting the bike with a booster pack or jumpers from another vehicle? Is that even a reasonable way to try to troubleshoot?

    I installed a chunk of welding cable on my battery for boosting if I need but I rather doubt most people have chunks of welding cable and lugs lying around their garage.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  10. #25
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    start it, put in gear, ride off, accelerate to 4K RPM, leave in gear, leave the clutch alone. key switch off, wait a second, switch on. You have reset the abs. I will initialize just fine. I have done this. Battery out of equation. I have a bent sensor wheel from careless tire change, it cleared the fault, for a while.
    It is a fact that all the brake hoses they used in that era are defective, with age the inner liner will break up and little chunks of rubber will appear. You can ignore it, hope non of them get in anything important, or you can replace them with Teflon lines ones. wait too long and the expense of the repair just rises.

    so this needs done no matter what, and if the good bleed fixes the problem then you are lucky. If not then pulling codes is next.

    Rod.

  11. #26
    Registered User thompsonr's Avatar
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    The first thing I did was buy a new battery not a oddessy but a sealed battery. I have also cleared the`failure flasher and connected a battery charger to battery I can pull the front brake or push rear brake pedal maybe 30 times and each time the servo fires up then failure light will come on.When that happens the front brake lever will not activate the servo and the rear will activate the servo but it sticks on continuing to run even when the brake pedal is released.

    I wish I had a code reader I think (if I read this right) the code reader GS911 could read the ABS problem.Trouble is they cost hundreds of $. My limited use of a reader would negate buying one.

    My air head could use a new battery if you think a Oddessy would help I could get one for the 1150 and pass the one I bought for 1150 to the air head . It is the battery I wanted to begin with but local store had to order and I didnt have the patents to wait.

    I clean the wheel sensor but the bike will go into failure mode while setting as described above.

    I may have to bite the bullet and haul it to shop to have code read. Wanted to maybe get lucky and fix this gremlin before that.

    Could the ABS relay switch have anything to do with this?

    Again thanks to all.

    R
    R and R

  12. #27
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Hi Rick,
    I just removed and reinstalled my ABS unit while replacing my alternator's regulator so that it properly charges the odyssey pc680 battery. I don't think you need to change out the new battery you bought. It sounds like you have a real problem in the ABS unit. Out of curiosity, which battery did you buy?

    I don't know the ABS unit very well, but I just used my GS-911 to read ABS codes and to perform a full pressure bleed-down test that the GS-911 supports. I will take a screen shot of the status data which will give you an idea what's going on.

    The computer is looking at wheel spin from the wheel sensors, monitoring internal hydraulic pressure with sensors it has and watching for the brake switch to OPEN. On some bikes the brake's switches close when you apply them, on the R1150RT, the contacts open when you apply the brakes.

    If the wheel rotation sensor or connector has a problem, it will fault. I'm told that any brake fluid spilled into those little connectors will damage them. They are the small ones on the top of the ABS. Carefully remove each connector and look inside.

    If the brake switch or wiring has an intermittent open, that may cause a fault. Doug Raymond who made these (http://www.mac-pac.org/wp-content/up...agram-V3.1.pdf) great schematics told me just recently that it took him a long time to find an intermittent switch.

    What color was the fluid when you bled the brakes, and how particle filled was it? Look the rubber lines over from end to end, others have seen bulges. If the line bulges under pressure as the fluid warms, that could trigger a fault.

    I would certainly look into borrowing a GS-911, I'd loan you mine if I were closer but I use it quite often.

    I'll get a screen shot of the ABS status and add it in a few minutes.
    RB

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    Hi Rick,
    Look the rubber lines over from end to end, others have seen bulges. If the line bulges under pressure as the fluid warms, that could trigger a fault.

    RB
    those lines can rupture internally, and may give no outward sign of failure whatsoever. that's what happened with my buddies. eventually, they began leaking, but he'd already had the shop replace the ABS pump, to no direct benefit.
    those lines were "adequate" when new, and only deteriorate and degrade with age.

    Just replace them. They're not real costly (full set is maybe $200), doing so will improve brake feel and performance, and they are pretty much a lifetime upgrade. Might even solve the OP's brake issue.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  14. #29
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    those lines can rupture internally, and may give no outward sign of failure whatsoever. that's what happened with my buddies. eventually, they began leaking, but he'd already had the shop replace the ABS pump, to no direct benefit.
    those lines were "adequate" when new, and only deteriorate and degrade with age.

    Just replace them. They're not real costly (full set is maybe $200), doing so will improve brake feel and performance, and they are pretty much a lifetime upgrade. Might even solve the OP's brake issue.
    BF, I have the same issue myself. After pulling the pump and reinstalling/bleeding the brakes are much more solid but I have the original rubber lines. My tank lines, I know they're differnt, were a mess. If many others have had brake line failures I can't see why mine would be different. The fluid was quite dark when changed it this weekend.

  15. #30
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Thanks Roger and Bikerfish for your comments.
    The rubber lines MUST be replaced before proceeding to troubleshoot other issues.
    Safety first, failures can happen even when the machine is off
    One client of mine was almost crushed unloading his bike off a pickup truck when the front master line bulged and the lever went to the handgrip.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

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