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Thread: Skyline Drive: First Time a Victim of Anti-Motorcycle Bias

  1. #91
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    In many areas, traffic tickets are, uh, "additional road taxes" under the guise of "public safety". If you don't believe that, just look up privatization of traffic enforcement, and how jurisdictions have allowed, for example, riskily reduced yellow light times as a revenue "enhancement". Locally here, you can regularly see NHP ignore cars tailgating 25 feet off at 70 ( a relatively cheap ticket for a very dangerous action) but they sit on radar and look for people speeding on clear roads (a much more expensive ticket for a safety nonissue).
    My point here is, if public safety is often a dishonest premise, that much traffic enforcement is really just an ad hoc road tax, which certainly appears the intent of many who make the laws, why should it then bother us if the mere tax collectors are less than stellar? As usual, the problem really is with those higher up the food chain, who give the marching orders.

  2. #92
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrbelknap View Post
    Well Harry, perhaps he was showing some common sense courtesy to you? Knowing you would be sitting there getting soaked while he ran your tags or wrote you up. After all, he gets to sit in the car.
    The fact that he did a U-turn, had all his lights going, and started a pursuit told me that he was going to at least pull me over. The downpour started right then, and the only thing I can attribute to his ending the pursuit was the heavy rain. He would have had to get out of the car to ticket me. I got lucky.

    akbeemer: I'm a cheapskate, and paying more for insurance is a big motivator for me to not try too hard.

    Harry
    2003 R1150RT - Silver

  3. #93
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David13 View Post
    Well, as I mentioned previous-like there is another Skyline, very famous here, from south of San Francisco into Santa Cruz on highway 9. I was up there just last month. Perfect weather. And such a beautiful road thru' the woods and hills (mts.).
    I know law enforcement never bothers me any.
    dc
    I remember riding Skyline back in the 80s. I was on my RS and moving along at pretty good pace. Then with a flash of white and the scream of a banshee I get passed by a TZ750 in full race trim. Came to find out that people would ride whatever they wanted however they wanted. The police responded to the carnage.
    Kevin Huddy
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  4. #94
    Has the GS-Lust The_Veg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    A couple of comments regarding an earlier post about Texas. First, it is not at all unusual to get a TICKET from a Texas State Trooper at 4 or 5 over the limit. They may well stop you for a chat at 2 or 3 over. Local police departments and sheriff departments might be a little more lenient - but maybe not.

    Their rationale for being strict is this isn't a little 55 mph state. In western Texas and parts of east Texas the two-lane rural speed limit is 70. Much of it is 75. Some Interstate is 80. The attitude is, "We give you 70 or 75 or 80! How much more do you think you'll get???"

    If perchance you want to suggest that a few mph is within the error of your speedometer you might hear the suggestion that you could get an equipment fix-it ticket too.
    Paul, if you're referring to my post, none of my incidents happened in areas that are any different to anywhere else in the country. TX may be unique in the 80 MPH limit but that didn't get implemented until after I left. My experience is that Texan enforcement will nail you for speeds that won't even wake them up in other states in similar environments and conditions.
    2012 R1200GS

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  5. #95
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Veg View Post
    Paul, if you're referring to my post, none of my incidents happened in areas that are any different to anywhere else in the country. TX may be unique in the 80 MPH limit but that didn't get implemented until after I left. My experience is that Texan enforcement will nail you for speeds that won't even wake them up in other states in similar environments and conditions.
    That too, is sort of my point. Five to ten over is not ticket-safe in Texas. But,

    I live along TX 118. A nice two lane asphalt highway between Alpine and Big Bend National Park. The speed limit is 70. Basic rural 2 lane speed limit. In Kansas where I used to live it would be 65. In Missouri it would be 60. In Iowa where I used to live it would be 55. This has been true since the day Nixon's 55 national energy conserving speed limit was repealed.

    I am not aware of any other state which has a 75 mph speed limit on two-lane state highways and farm-to-market roads like in west Texas. I'm sure somebody will tell me otherwise if I've missed them. I would have suspected Wyoming and Montana as the most likely but haven't found it since the overturn of reasonable and prudent - which I always described as reasonably imprudent.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
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  6. #96
    Kbiker BCKRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    That too, is sort of my point. Five to ten over is not ticket-safe in Texas. But,

    I live along TX 118. A nice two lane asphalt highway between Alpine and Big Bend National Park. The speed limit is 70. Basic rural 2 lane speed limit. In Kansas where I used to live it would be 65. In Missouri it would be 60. In Iowa where I used to live it would be 55. This has been true since the day Nixon's 55 national energy conserving speed limit was repealed.

    I am not aware of any other state which has a 75 mph speed limit on two-lane state highways and farm-to-market roads like in west Texas. I'm sure somebody will tell me otherwise if I've missed them. I would have suspected Wyoming and Montana as the most likely but haven't found it since the overturn of reasonable and prudent - which I always described as reasonably imprudent.
    Paul, as a person who has ridden across the US and a lot of Canada many times, which would you prefer: 1. lower speed limits that are sporadically enforced and hence often violated with the expectation you won't be pulled over if you are no more than 10 mph or higher above the speed limit; or 2. higher speed limits on similar highways (as you have in Texas) but little slack to people even slightly over the limit.

    You have the experience in miles to tell us not only what you prefer but also what makes you feel safer.

    An essay answer is acceptable.
    Doug
    1992 K100RS

  7. #97
    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Having spent much of 1996 & 1997 in Montana, I'd prefer reasonable and prudent.

  8. #98
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    I ride with some retired Troopers here in MT and they tell me they still wrote many tickets when Reasonable and Prudent was the law of the land. For instance, a Trooper is on the interstate doing 85 MPH and gets passed by a BMW M Class car doing 100 MPH... no issue assuming the weather conditions are okay. Then the Trooper gets passed by a family of five in a ten year old Dodge Caravan doing 100 MPH. The Caravan is getting pulled and the driver is getting a ticket. Differences: childeren involved, age and capabilities of the vehicle and tires. According to my friends the tickets almost always survived a trial. R&P inspired some to perform and act silly in front of LEOs because they thought the law was a license to do whatever they wanted, and that turned out not to be reasonable or prudent.

    Montana is still a great place to ride. You still run 80 on the interstates and 70-75 on most rural two lane roads which is fast enough for me these days. And there are many great places to ride.
    Kevin Huddy
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  9. #99
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David13 View Post
    Well, as I mentioned previous-like there is another Skyline, very famous here, from south of San Francisco into Santa Cruz on highway 9. I was up there just last month. Perfect weather. And such a beautiful road thru' the woods and hills (mts.).
    I know law enforcement never bothers me any.
    dc
    Found that road last year. Very memorable ride through the hilltops with views of the ocean and Silcon Valley to the East. Only sad part is when you end up in the traffic of South San Fran.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  10. #100
    Jammess jammess's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    I ride with some retired Troopers here in MT and they tell me they still wrote many tickets when Reasonable and Prudent was the law of the land. For instance, a Trooper is on the interstate doing 85 MPH and gets passed by a BMW M Class car doing 100 MPH... no issue assuming the weather conditions are okay. Then the Trooper gets passed by a family of five in a ten year old Dodge Caravan doing 100 MPH. The Caravan is getting pulled and the driver is getting a ticket. Differences: childeren involved, age and capabilities of the vehicle and tires. According to my friends the tickets almost always survived a trial. R&P inspired some to perform and act silly in front of LEOs because they thought the law was a license to do whatever they wanted, and that turned out not to be reasonable or prudent.

    Montana is still a great place to ride. You still run 80 on the interstates and 70-75 on most rural two lane roads which is fast enough for me these days. And there are many great places to ride.
    I have many fond memories of life under the Big Sky. I lived and worked in Yellowstone NP in the 70's for about 5 years when the day time speed in MT was reasonable and kind of prudent but fell to 55 mph at night. Anyway, I was motoring over the Bozeman pass (Bozeman to Livingston) on my new '79 Suzuki GS1000E at 100+mph right past a MHP that had stopped a semi. Next thing I know here comes flashing blue lights moving mighty fast so I pull over. The cop motions me to approach his vehicle and get in on the passenger side. They used to do that in MT to see how you walk, follow instructions, and/or smell funny. Anyway, he gives me a ticket for 5 dollars for wasting natural resources (fuel) and collects the 5 bucks on the spot. Problem was I only had a 20 and he couldn't make change. So, we agreed to meet the following week in the park whereas I would pay him the five which I did. Was humorous when he pulled me over as he chewed me out because I obviously had no respect for law enforcement because I blew by him without slowing down then he went through a half a tank of the tax payer's gas just getting up to speed to catch me. All and all great fun and I made a friend on the MHP.
    Oh, he thought he really had me because I had a MT registration but an Oregon drivers license. Since I lived on a federal reservation I was OK.
    Jammess

  11. #101
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BCKRider View Post
    Paul, as a person who has ridden across the US and a lot of Canada many times, which would you prefer: 1. lower speed limits that are sporadically enforced and hence often violated with the expectation you won't be pulled over if you are no more than 10 mph or higher above the speed limit; or 2. higher speed limits on similar highways (as you have in Texas) but little slack to people even slightly over the limit.

    You have the experience in miles to tell us not only what you prefer but also what makes you feel safer.

    An essay answer is acceptable.
    OK - essay answer.

    I can answer this question more or less on two levels. Almost every transportation planner or traffic engineer (as opposed to state legislator or county commissioner) will tell you that the proper set for a speed limit is the 85th percentile speed - the speed at which no more than 15% of drivers would be comfortable going faster. Traffic engineers would also say that a speed limit at this speed will usually result in the most orderly traffic flow and least speed differential in moving traffic.

    My riding experience agrees with this. Note however that when establishing "normal" speed limits for highways state-wide legislators often throw traffic engineering out the window. Some states do a pretty decent job at allowing district engineers to set speed limits.

    My experience is that when the driving public finds speed limits to be arbitrarily low (55 two-lane statewide as in Iowa, Minnesota, and a bunch of other states) traffic flow gets all messed up and so does public safety. Some folks will insist that the speed limit is what they intend to drive while others are perfectly happy to take their chances at 10 or 15 over because the roadway, side friction, sight distance, and other conditions allow these speeds safely. This is an open invitation to: large speed differentials, aggresive driving, tailgating, erratic lane changes, etc.

    But when speed limits are set at more reasonable speeds for the actual road characteristics speed differentials decrease and traffic generally flows smoothly. In West texas where the I-10 and I-20 limits are 80 speeds generally cluster between 75 and 80 - with occasional outliers mostly from out of state that think that 10 over is OK, but even these folks are fairly rare.

    On most of the 2-lane roads with 75 or 70 as the limit most of the traffic flows near but not much if any over the limit. You can sometimes go for 50 miles without being passed or any need to pass because traffic is flowing generally close to the same speed.

    Just like the traffic engineers and transportation planners say it is likely to behave.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

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