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Thread: I watched The Youtube Video of the NY Motorcycle Gang

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  2. #107
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Research Excerpts:

    [I]When the 2005 bill to legalize lane splitting in Washington State was defeated, a Washington State Patrol spokesman testified in opposition, saying that, "it would be difficult to set and enforce standards for appropriate speeds and conditions for lane splitting. And he said that officials with the California Highway Patrol told him that they wished they had never begun allowing the practice: "The California Highway Patrol's official policy is that lane splitting is "permissible" but must be done in a safe and prudent manner."
    There was one high ranking CHP official who was anti lane sharing and made his views known far an wide. I believe the never begun the practice came from that individual. As the practice started decades before he came to power his feelings were somewhat irrelevant. The organization as a whole is not against the practice.

    I look for CHP officers to follow when stuck in commute traffic. When they get in front its like the parting of the sea... a wide boulevard opens between lanes and it is not uncommon to see them leading a train of bikes. Funny how the drivers that can never see me almost always have no trouble seeing a motor officer. :wink

    In a discussion on the pros and cons it was a CHP officer who opined that the practice was safer in heavy traffic than strictly staying behind the guy in front of you. His reasoning was that most fender benders involve being hit from the rear and that at low speeds cars rarely drifted right or left into other cars. I once looked for statistics on that but came up empty. I tend to believe it, but maybe that's because it supports my lone anecdote of when the car that was behind me ran into the car that was in front of me as I was two or three cars ahead due to splitting when traffic abruptly slowed on the SF Bay Bridge one morning 20+ years ago.

  3. #108
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
    There was one high ranking CHP official who was anti lane sharing and made his views known far an wide. I believe the never begun the practice came from that individual. As the practice started decades before he came to power his feelings were somewhat irrelevant. The organization as a whole is not against the practice.

    I look for CHP officers to follow when stuck in commute traffic. When they get in front its like the parting of the sea... a wide boulevard opens between lanes and it is not uncommon to see them leading a train of bikes. Funny how the drivers that can never see me almost always have no trouble seeing a motor officer. :wink

    In a discussion on the pros and cons it was a CHP officer who opined that the practice was safer in heavy traffic than strictly staying behind the guy in front of you. His reasoning was that most fender benders involve being hit from the rear and that at low speeds cars rarely drifted right or left into other cars. I once looked for statistics on that but came up empty. I tend to believe it, but maybe that's because it supports my lone anecdote of when the car that was behind me ran into the car that was in front of me as I was two or three cars ahead due to splitting when traffic abruptly slowed on the SF Bay Bridge one morning 20+ years ago.
    As you are actually "on the front lines," by living in CA, I think the pendulum of credibility swings in your direction. However, while the opinion of the CHP Officer about avoiding rear-end collisions seems logical, the issue I raised was that, though we are not 'Napoleonic' in our approach to what is law ("All behavior needed to be classified as legal or non-legal in Bonaparte's world"), nearly all of what we can and cannot do in American society is ultimately defined by case law (either criminal or civil). Whether or not lane splitting survives (the track record of other states when introduced at a legislative level seems to indicate it will never 'thrive') will some day depend on just such a process.

    The latest issue of AARP - The Magazine has a fascinating article by Bob Schieffer, longtime CBS correspondent. He points out that while once Americans simply watched the news media to stay informed, most now practice what he termed "validation journalism." Many prefer to seek out a news product that strictly validates what they already believe, be it truthful or not.

    As a motorcycle instructor that strives to present material as objectively sterile as possible, I witness such 'rationale' frequently applied to everything from the sanity of helmet use, to loud pipes, to lane splitting.

    Tis' a challenging world we live in, is it not?!
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  4. #109
    Ponch
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    As you are actually "on the front lines," by living in CA, I think the pendulum of credibility swings in your direction. However, while the opinion of the CHP Officer about avoiding rear-end collisions seems logical, the issue I raised was that, though we are not 'Napoleonic' in our approach to what is law ("All behavior needed to be classified as legal or non-legal in Bonaparte's world"), nearly all of what we can and cannot do in American society is ultimately defined by case law (either criminal or civil). Whether or not lane splitting survives (the track record of other states when introduced at a legislative level seems to indicate it will never 'thrive') will some day depend on just such a process.

    The latest issue of AARP - The Magazine has a fascinating article by Bob Schieffer, longtime CBS correspondent. He points out that while once Americans simply watched the news media to stay informed, most now practice what he termed "validation journalism." Many prefer to seek out a news product that strictly validates what they already believe, be it truthful or not.

    As a motorcycle instructor that strives to present material as objectively sterile as possible, I witness such 'rationale' frequently applied to everything from the sanity of helmet use, to loud pipes, to lane splitting.

    Tis' a challenging world we live in, is it not?!
    It's called confirmational bias. People look for what reinforces their beliefs instead of the truth which is facts. Part of it is the partisan nature and declining quality of journalism. If they stuck to the facts, may be they'd get more viewership. On the other hand there's probably more to it as we've become such a brand/marketing leveraged culture. We identify with what we use and believe in. Could be BMW motorcycles, Coke, Apple Computers, Roman Catholicism or Jon Stewart for news commentary. I think it's better that we stop believing and start knowing. This takes an open mind, gravitas, curiosity and enough brain cells to discern information.
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  5. #110
    rangerreece rangerreece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    It's called confirmational bias. People look for what reinforces their beliefs instead of the truth which is facts. Part of it is the partisan nature and declining quality of journalism. If they stuck to the facts, may be they'd get more viewership. On the other hand there's probably more to it as we've become such a brand/marketing leveraged culture. We identify with what we use and believe in. Could be BMW motorcycles, Coke, Apple Computers, Roman Catholicism or Jon Stewart for news commentary. I think it's better that we stop believing and start knowing. This takes an open mind, gravitas, curiosity and enough brain cells to discern information.
    I like where this conversation is going. Watch the one hour presentation a few videos down on the page, Chris's 2010 presentation I think it's called. All the videos are good though.

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  6. #111
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    Many prefer to seek out a news product that strictly validates what they already believe, be it truthful or not.
    Certainly. It was an attempt to not get sucked in by confirmation bias that made me look for actual statistics. Couldn't find any one way or the other. Don't know if it's something anyone has actually studied.

    The web comic XKCD had an interesting take on the "news product" that sometimes passes for journalism these days...



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  7. #112
    Bill Lumberg 175781's Avatar
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    I'm career law enforcement, and a long-time LE firearms/tactics instructor. Neither is particularly relevant to the situation we're discussing. That said, I can tell you without hesitation that I would have employed a firearm, and that it would have been effective. For the average person, their cellphone and vehicle are far better defensive options. As is obvious in this case, neither can give you 100 percent protection. I pretty much always have a gun on my hip, but I can tell you the average person is far more likely to find a case where pepper spray is appropriate than a firearm. Keep a can handy in every vehicle. It may or may not have benefited the victims in this particular circumstance.
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  8. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by 175781 View Post
    That said, I can tell you without hesitation that I would have employed a firearm, and that it would have been effective. .

    If you would have been the driver in the SUV and would have "employed" your firearam, you would have not survived the incident. After your first shot out of the car, your vehicle would have been riddled with bullets.
    What do you think these Cowboys who promote carrying permits and think that armed civilians could prevent school shooting melees like that in CT are waiting for?? - a guy that starts shooting, so they can pull their gun and become the hero who prevented a massacre!

  9. #114
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
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    My experience has been that those who are able to lane split (CA) are very much in favor of it. In fact, many have said to me that they wonder why everyone doesn't do it.

    The rest of us, not so much.

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  10. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    As you are actually "on the front lines," by living in CA, I think the pendulum of credibility swings in your direction. However, while the opinion of the CHP Officer about avoiding rear-end collisions seems logical, the issue I raised was that, though we are not 'Napoleonic' in our approach to what is law ("All behavior needed to be classified as legal or non-legal in Bonaparte's world"), nearly all of what we can and cannot do in American society is ultimately defined by case law (either criminal or civil). Whether or not lane splitting survives (the track record of other states when introduced at a legislative level seems to indicate it will never 'thrive') will some day depend on just such a process.

    The latest issue of AARP - The Magazine has a fascinating article by Bob Schieffer, longtime CBS correspondent. He points out that while once Americans simply watched the news media to stay informed, most now practice what he termed "validation journalism." Many prefer to seek out a news product that strictly validates what they already believe, be it truthful or not.

    As a motorcycle instructor that strives to present material as objectively sterile as possible, I witness such 'rationale' frequently applied to everything from the sanity of helmet use, to loud pipes, to lane splitting.

    Tis' a challenging world we live in, is it not?!
    Pretty tough to have any real reaction to Shieffers' comments(I actually like the guy on a "sort of" personal basis) & most things written in AARP magazine w/o heading for the doghouse as they do have an active political basis...
    I will go this far to say that he has fairly recently participated in "his own form" of what he is disparaging?
    I split when it is the best choice available to me...
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  11. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by marchyman View Post
    Certainly. It was an attempt to not get sucked in by confirmation bias that made me look for actual statistics. Couldn't find any one way or the other. Don't know if it's something anyone has actually studied.

    The web comic XKCD had an interesting take on the "news product" that sometimes passes for journalism these days...



    Anything to get someone to click.
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    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  12. #117
    Ponch
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    If you would have been the driver in the SUV and would have "employed" your firearam, you would have not survived the incident. After your first shot out of the car, your vehicle would have been riddled with bullets.
    What do you think these Cowboys who promote carrying permits and think that armed civilians could prevent school shooting melees like that in CT are waiting for?? - a guy that starts shooting, so they can pull their gun and become the hero who prevented a massacre!
    In either case neither criminal group expects to be shot at and that would explain their behavior in the first place. I would be they'd crap themselves if they were shot and run like hell. As to the post above, pepper spray? The poster doesn't show where he lives, but my guess it's a large progressive metro or in a more progressive state than where I live.
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  13. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    Pretty tough to have any real reaction to Shieffers' comments(I actually like the guy on a "sort of" personal basis) & most things written in AARP magazine w/o heading for the doghouse as they do have an active political basis...
    I will go this far to say that he has fairly recently participated in "his own form" of what he is disparaging?
    I split when it is the best choice available to me...
    Situational awareness and what I call "no be there" are the best tools. If one can avoid trouble or skedaddle if possible or practical is the best thing. If you can't, never give up, never take a beating willingly as someone said.
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  14. #119
    Bill Lumberg 175781's Avatar
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    Nope. But I can understand why someone with limited real world experience might draw that conclusion. Mr. Bloomberg, I presume?
    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    If you would have been the driver in the SUV and would have "employed" your firearam, you would have not survived the incident. After your first shot out of the car, your vehicle would have been riddled with bullets.
    What do you think these Cowboys who promote carrying permits and think that armed civilians could prevent school shooting melees like that in CT are waiting for?? - a guy that starts shooting, so they can pull their gun and become the hero who prevented a massacre!
    Last edited by 175781; 11-08-2013 at 03:44 PM.
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  15. #120
    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
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    I wanted to check in here to say I was up in New York City over the weekend- working up around 11th Ave and 46th St, more or less. Was walking to my car Sunday night and saw about 10-15 of these hooligans on their stolen dirt bikes- straight up dirt bikes- not dual sport machines- no registration plates or tags, and four wheelers. One of the guys was a recognizable character I'm pretty sure I saw from the videos of the gang- wearing a chromed nazi style helmet.

    They were owning all lanes and generally appeared to be haviving their fun with total impunity. So despite whatever charges have come down on a few, at least a handful of these meatheads are still out there doing their thing, as they please.
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