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Thread: SPEED KILLS (Your Pocketbook)

  1. #1
    Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197 bogthebasher's Avatar
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    SPEED KILLS (Your Pocketbook)

    Interesting take on what causes people to speed and what works and does not work when setting speed limits to improve road safety.

    http://youtu.be/2BKdbxX1pDw
    Last edited by bogthebasher; 09-14-2013 at 08:17 PM. Reason: Typo
    Ken
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  2. #2
    Cowboyatheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by bogthebasher View Post
    Interesting take on what causes people to speed and what works and does not work when setting speed limits to improve road safety.

    http://youtu.be/2BKdbxX1pDw
    Great, thanks. I was just wondering last night who I complain to about the ridiculously low speed limits on the hwy's in BC, and especially on the Sunshine Coast. The RCMP come over from West Van/Squamish just to ticket on this hwy because it's speed limit is 80 km/h and the hwy is easily safe at 120 km/h. And they ticket at anything above 5 km/h. They make bets about who can give out the most tickets in a day. I have nothing nice to say about LEO's that focus on that, they should be out doing real police work.

    Great link, great video, already sent my letter of protest.

  3. #3
    Enjoy The Ride saddleman's Avatar
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    Thanks I enjoyed the link. I also agree.
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    Registered User WalterK75's Avatar
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    I fine it very irritating when I'm on a two lane county road in southern Ontario and by crossing an imaginary line into another township the speed limit changes. It's the same road but suddenly the speed changes from 60 to 80, for example, or 80 to 60 depending on direction of travel.

    Another speed issue is that the speed limit posted on curves in some places can be so slow that I'm assuming these are the winter speeds in a blinding snow with ice on the road. A speed limit of 50 where 80 is safe, for example, and these places exist. Two beautiful new "improvements" on roads I ride have this 50 limit and 80 is the speed one rides them at without thinking this is dangerous.

    Speed may kill, as they say, but I'm more inclined to think stupidity kills.

    Rant over.
    Walter

    All government, of course, is against liberty.
    H. L. Mencken

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    TravelsWithBarley.com
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    In my recent 8800 mile trek across the US (and back) I noticed that drivers generally travelled at the same rate of speed regardless of the posted limit. And in places where conditions made the posted speed limit seem excessive to the average driver, folks voluntarily slowed down. Distracted drivers were the chief hazard I encountered, yet I saw several LEOs pass texting drivers without giving them a second glance.

    My conclusion was that cops have an objective means of tracking drivers exceeding the speed limit, while other more odious offenses would be harder to prove in court so go unpunished. The laws are simply following the easy money.
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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    While I agree certain speed limits are outdated and could be 'bumped up' without excessive risk to traffic safety, this is hardly a professional piece of investigative journalism.

    Buzz comments like "cops label all drivers as deviant criminals" and "doesn't look too socialist" start showing up in the very first few sentences.

    This You-Tube piece is blatantly slanted to be anti-law enforcement - not really surprised.

    If You-Tube is your source of journalistic excellence, any debate over the objectivity of this topic was over before it ever started.
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    Cowboyatheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    While I agree certain speed limits are outdated and could be 'bumped up' without excessive risk to traffic safety, this is hardly a professional piece of investigative journalism.

    Buzz comments like "cops label all drivers as deviant criminals" and "doesn't look too socialist" start showing up in the very first few sentences.

    This You-Tube piece is blatantly slanted to be anti-law enforcement - not really surprised.

    If You-Tube is your source of journalistic excellence, any debate over the objectivity of this topic was over before it ever started.
    I don't think that is the point. Were you a police officer in your former days?

    In Canada, BC in particular, we have extremely low speed limits for very highly maintained, easily drivable roads. The point is people need a mechanism to "talk, speak up to government". In Canada folks complain a lot, but very few take action. The b.s. reporting by TV News as to the cause of accidents are mostly unfounded based on "drama to capture audiences", the cops go out and ticket a lot because they are rewarded for doing so. They pick the easy target, speeding, even if common sense would say the speed be driven is safe for the road and conditions. Never do they ticket the slow drivers for holding up traffic, for hanging in the left lane and impeding traffic, for changing lanes without signalling, for excessively tailgating, ....

    My experience is that the majority of drivers will drive at a limit that is reasonable for the road. In BC that is mostly above the posted limit. But the cops here are ruthless with ticketing creating huge revenues for the province, so people are very frustrated, and it causes a lot of road rage. This in turn causes more accidents.

    I too find that if the limit is posted to high for peoples comfort, they will slow down and hang in the right lane allowing the faster drivers to pass. This is safer behaviour.

    The piece above, on you tube, is just as blatantly "over dramatized" to make a point, just as the TV News journalism or cops being interviewed on the news.

    Most accidents, in the city are due to distracted drivers, or people not paying attention, or frustrated drivers because the other drivers should not really be on the road (they don't know the rules or follow them). Yes some crashes are caused by people driving too fast for the conditions or doing something really stupid like road racing. Those are few and far between, IMO, when compared with all the other causes. And let's face it, sometimes people just make mistakes, that is part of the human condition.

    In Italy, lines are suggestions, as well as posted limits. People are courteous, and I saw no road rage, just polite drivers. Even though "following the rules" is not too common, except for the obvious ones.

    In Germany, everyone follows the rules, the autobahn is great to drive on, people know not to hang in the left lane, to not take forever to overtake someone then quickly get back in the right lane, and to slow down when on an exit, because the speed limit will drop dramatically. Better trained, probably. But when driving at higher speeds, you must pay attention to what you are doing, distractions are just not on anyone's mind, they pay attention to their driving, the road conditions and other traffic around them. If there is an accident it is a "spectacular one", but as you can see from reports, it happens way less frequently per capita, or drivers on the road, than in Canada.

    So I applaud this journalist for finally spending sometime to raise the issue, rather than sitting on his butt and complaining expecting things to change.

    Traffic Patrol is important, but let's have them focus on the real causes of accidents, and it isn't going above a posted limit when the road and conditions safely allow a higher speed. Get them focussed on the idiots, yes idiots, who do stupid things, or annoy other drivers by deliberately blocking passing and hanging needlessly in the left lane, for texting while driving, for changing lanes without signalling....

  8. #8
    Cowboyatheart
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    Smile

    And another thing, if the real reason the Govt and Police wanted people to slow down was for safety, then park out in the open, or use an electronic radar driven sign that reminds motorists that they are speeding.

    I have noticed that is just as effective, if not more effective at having drivers slow down, as giving out tickets, even though giving out tickets is more satisfying for the cop and the province.

    In other words, tickets are not required in order to have people slow down.

    yes, those excessively speeding, as I define as too dangerous a speed for the traffic and/or road conditions deserve a ticket. Not some arbitary "you are XX above the posted limit" threshold.

    No, I'm not sure my rant is over!!!

  9. #9
    rangerreece rangerreece's Avatar
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    I thought the piece was well done. An entertaining effort to address a real issue we have in cooperate civil society. Never saw a speed limit sign in Iraq, but then there were other means available of slowing people down.
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  10. #10
    TravelsWithBarley.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    While I agree certain speed limits are outdated and could be 'bumped up' without excessive risk to traffic safety, this is hardly a professional piece of investigative journalism.

    Buzz comments like "cops label all drivers as deviant criminals" and "doesn't look too socialist" start showing up in the very first few sentences.

    This You-Tube piece is blatantly slanted to be anti-law enforcement - not really surprised.

    If You-Tube is your source of journalistic excellence, any debate over the objectivity of this topic was over before it ever started.
    Kevin - while there was a bit of hyperbole and of painting with broad strokes, I found it better researched than most of what I see on the nightly news. I am pushing 60 and have received one moving violation in my entire life (in 1982 for speeding in a school zone...on a bicycle!), but in conversations with state troopers and our town police officers they all seem to assume that because I'm a motorcyclist, I must speed. So that broad brush works both ways, and I think it's become a cultural norm to overstate things to make your point.

    For the most part I find the speed limits here in Vermont reasonable, given the sorry condition of our roads and the rural nature of the place. But in my travels across the country I've been on scenic twisties posted at 70 which suddenly drop to 50 at the state line even though the nature of the road didn't change one bit. And generally within the first few miles I'll see an LEO hidden in the shadows. For public safety? Is Idaho inherently less safe than Montana?

    Pete
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  11. #11
    Registered User WalterK75's Avatar
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    My Uncle complained to me once about a ticket he got for speeding. He was tagged for doing 31 mph in a 30 mph zone.
    Walter

    All government, of course, is against liberty.
    H. L. Mencken

  12. #12
    Cowboyatheart
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    some data information from a reliable set of folks...

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...eed_zoning.pdf

    could not upload this small pdf because it exceeds this forums limits.

  13. #13
    Cowboyatheart
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    and another link for your information....

    http://www.azdot.gov/business/engine...g-speed-limits

  14. #14
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  15. #15
    OldBMWMaster JDOCKERY132445's Avatar
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    Poor cops

    Speed does not kill, stupidity does. I loved the reference to the German approach. That makes sense.

    Of course police love speeding laws because they have nice equipment to effectively prove that a "crime" was committed.

    The Parker study should be force fed every police jurisdiction. They actually believe that crap; some even keep up the mantra after they retire.

    Why do the police ignore dangerous behaviors like testing, putting on makeup, eating food, disciplinign children, etc. and concentrate on speeding? Because it is easy. AND lucrative.
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