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Thread: Starter or Battery 2004 R1150RT

  1. #121
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    The other annoying thing on the wiring is that the lights come on before the motorcycle starts, draining a weak battery.
    That one is easy. On all my power sports equipment that have an oil light, I piggy back a wire on to the switch and use the oil pressure switch to close the ground side of the the relay. I use the power side of the headlight for the positive side of the coil and and then just connect the power side of the headlight to the load side of the headlight.

    Headlight doesn't come on until you have oil pressure. That's an old Murphy switch trick.

    It's easy, it doesn't backfeed the oil light. I've done it numerous times on machines that need all the help they can get starting, like my quad I use for plowing snow.

    When I hit "stuff" with the plow, I generally stall it and by the time I fix the "stuff" I just hit to cause the quad to quit, there is just enough battery to crank it over once or twice. With no headlight on, I get twice and on a good day, almost three times.

    I did it on my R1100RT, my Kawasaki, a few of my friends' bikes and haven't had an issue yet.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
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  2. #122
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    After getting Odyssey's advice on how to best maintain their batteries when installed in a bike whose charging voltage is in the 13.6-14.0 volt range, like the R1100s and R1150s, this morning I discharged my battery by about 1 aH, roughly a 5% discharge.

    Next, the battery was recharged at 13.6 volts, simulating an Oilhead alternator. The initial current was 3.6 amps and after an hour it was drawing 1/10 amp and it appeared to be recharged.

    At that point the recharger was adjusted to the recommended 14.5 volts and the battery drew about 1 amp, indicating that it was not fully charged. It took another half hour to finish charging the battery at 14.5 volts, I don't know how long it might have taken had I left the charger voltage at 13.6V since the charging current was under a hundred milliamps at that point.

    Then to finish this process up, I discharded the battery by 5% a second time and recharged it at 14.5V. Initial current was 4.6 amps and it took 40 minutes to reach 100% State of Charge (SOC).

    In order to reach a 100% SOC after a 5% discharge it looks like Odyssey is giving good advice: either charge at 14.5 volts or charge the battery at 13.6-13.8 volts for an extended period of time (several hours).
    RB

  3. #123
    not so retired henzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
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  4. #124
    Registered User R100RTurbo's Avatar
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    I performed a discharge cycle again and recorded 7hrs 35minutes to 10.02v when the load was still 3.7amps (on my PC925). In going back to the Odyssey manual(s), that is actually right in line with recomended capacity. Although a slight improvement from the first test, its not dramatic, hence I believe my bike charging system is fine as is. I am however looking at upgrading my battery charger as mine is rather low tech.
    A question for GSAddict - if you've been increasing the voltage (as per the procedure Roger depicted) for years on your bikes, what if anything has been the effect on bulb life? Seems you're "real life" experience and answer might help diffuse that potential or suggested draw back that looms large for this consideration.

  5. #125
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quick question: are you using a resistor for the load test, if you are, what's the value? I agree that your battery looks close to 100%. The 5 hour discharge rate for testing is 5.6A which is 26 aH. The 8 hour rate is 3.4 amps, 27.2 aH. http://www.odysseybattery.com/docume...1_0411_000.pdf.

    When I measured mine I recorded the voltage every half hour, calculated the average voltage between points. Used that divided by the resistance as the load. This done so that I could adjust current as voltage declined.
    RB

  6. #126
    Registered User R100RTurbo's Avatar
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    I used an automotive 50w halogen lamp that measured 3.77amps after a period of time being on. One thing I didn't do was measure that value at the end of the test & not sure that might skew accuracy?

  7. #127
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    With that added info. I'm thinking the average current through the discharge interval was 3.3 amps which means you got about 23 aH or 85% SOC. IT took me till the 4th time to get a gain.

    A key is the recharge is full current, whatever the battery will take at least 40% of 27aH about 11A.
    RB

  8. #128
    Registered User R100RTurbo's Avatar
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    Well, may as well run another test cycle then as a trend may not have completed yet. My charger doesn't have the proper technology, even while having an AGM setting. Problem is that the 10amp output settles off to a couple of amps way quick in the procedure and I'm finishing with a power supply that pushes voltage up to 15.5 but has small current rating (divulging that, probably going to draw fresh ire) Definately not as text book as your procedures, but on the gift forfront, a new charger is a reasonable development.

  9. #129
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Before I got a high enough power charger, I connected jumpers from my SUV with an ammeter in series. Once the current was flowing I started the car. Although not a high voltage it was over 14 and the current remained high for an hour. Then I reverted to the lower power. That was my battery's first step of recovery.

  10. #130
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R100RTurbo View Post
    A question for GSAddict - if you've been increasing the voltage (as per the procedure Roger depicted) for years on your bikes, what if anything has been the effect on bulb life? Seems you're "real life" experience and answer might help diffuse that potential or suggested draw back that looms large for this consideration.
    I have had no abnormal lamp failure rates that were apparent in the 4 years of incandescent only.
    That being said, about 3 years ago I changed the entire bike over to LED & HID with the exception of the high beam and telltale lamps. I have changed 1 high beam lamp in that time.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  11. #131
    Registered User jpm1074's Avatar
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    Starter problem: My Saga!

    Roger, In august of this past year I had a similar issue with my 04 R1150GS. I at first thought it was the Battery and replaced the old one with a new gel. It ran great but became nearly impossible to start acting as if it lacked spark or fuel. After further testing it was found that it had intermittent spark and fuel. after a few weeks I surrendered and took it to the dealership. After six weeks a new HES sensor, trading out the control module ( after not working both parts were absorbed by myself and the dealer) and $1000.00 in labor expenses the dealership ( with my help on a saturday afternoon) figured out that the problem was the starter. The starter was slightly laboring which robbed too many volts from from the fuel and ignition system. One of those expensive silly, simple,stupid $225 fixes (cost of a new starter on-line) that even had the dealership scratching their heads.

  12. #132
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    For the past three weeks I've been monitoring my starts now that the battery stays at a 100% SOC (state of charge). It takes about 1 second, a little more or less. A couple days ago I cold-soaked the bike to 25F. The battery voltage dropped with temperature to 12.7 volts (from 12.9V).

    With the fast idle lever in mid position, transmission in neutral so that the starter was also turning the transmission input shaft in the very cold transmission oil, the engine was up and running in 1.4 seconds. Not bad.

  13. #133
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Here's some further information on charging AGM batteries.

    Although BMW has shipped GEL batteries on its motorcycles, for many years, they have shipped AGM batteries on the R1200GSA from 2006 to present, and on the new R1200GSW too.

    That being the case I asked Terry who runs a 2010 R1200GSA (and incidentally has dual LC-1s installed) to collect some more data on his bike's charging system. He obliged and took battery voltage data with his GS-911 and also measured the voltage with his Fluke DVM. The GS-911 and Fluke seem to be within 50-100mV of each other so I believe the results are a good representation of what's going on.

    Here are the results of Terry's measurements from the GS-911:
    Ambient Temperature: 55-60F
    Charging voltage cold, right after starting: 14.85V
    Charging voltage warm: 14.7V
    Charging voltage hot: 14.6V

    At higher ambient temperatures the voltage will come down a bit further but the bottom line is that, like Odysset for its AGM batteries, BMW charges AGM batteries at a higher voltage than GEL or conventional.

  14. #134
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roger 04 rt View Post
    Here are the results of Terry's measurements from the GS-911:
    Ambient Temperature: 55-60F
    Charging voltage cold, right after starting: 14.85V
    Charging voltage warm: 14.7V
    Charging voltage hot: 14.6V
    This is with an original and stock alternator/voltage regulator in his GS?

  15. #135
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Yes, Teery's bike has the original stock alternator and regulator. Interestingly, the maxbmw parts fiche shows that the 1200GSA has an AGM battery and a DENSO alternator. Bikes with the gel battery seem to use a Bosch alternator. I don't know the reason for the alternator difference. Could be power, could be charging voltage.

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