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Thread: Corn lobby's response to all our ethanol threads

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    I figure there is a 50/50 chance I might see electric cages in common use eventually but virtually no progression to anything other than increased natural gas use (possibly even for trucks, etc) with only a tiny bit of wind and solar. Heck, here in NC we're wasting about 5 years just talking about where wind generators could go offshore, despite having what is easily the most wind favorable offshore location in the country (lots of square miles of water under 100 ft deep going almost 50 miles offshore in many places, plenty of wind, etc). The negative arguments are virtually all "we don't want to see a wind generator from the beach" Depending on height, the might need to be 15 miles or a bit more offshore to do that....
    There was, for a time, talk of putting up a sizable wind farm off the Texas Gulf coast. They assured everyone that it would be far enough off shore to "not" be visible from the beach. Then hurricane Ike paid us a little visit and all those plans flew smooth out the window! Oh well!
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    A significant problem with current corn prices is the ripple effect on all food prices.
    Don't you think the price of fuel might have something to do with the price of corn?? Notice, how well the price of corn and fuel tracked between 1984 and 2000? But then what.........the price of fuel started to increase around 2000, but corn didn't. Where did that production cost go?
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgr451 View Post
    I live in Canada and I have not seen any gas only option. Every pump I see has ethanol.
    For years in Ontario, Shell V Power has been ethanol free. I've been told that Shell now sells ethanol free V Power in all Canadian provinces.
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  4. #34
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    According to some, ethanol "credits" now adding over $1 per gallon to our gasoline.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/break...125424933.html
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    According to some, ethanol "credits" now adding over $1 per gallon to our gasoline.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/break...125424933.html
    Considering that the per gallon wholesale price of ethanol has been lower than that of Unleaded regular since 2010, I don't see how the analyst can make his claim. As is, the loss of sales in the ethanol market is depressing corn commodity prices.

    But, the claim will receive lots of air play on some news outlets and that is how the analyst markets his services.......
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Considering that the per gallon wholesale price of ethanol has been lower than that of Unleaded regular since 2010, I don't see how the analyst can make his claim. ......


    Its not the price of corn, it's about being mandated to use more and more ethanol or purchase credits.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/15/bu...html?%20Robert
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  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    Its not the price of corn, it's about being mandated to use more and more ethanol or purchase credits.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/15/bu...html?%20Robert

    Great reference above. Once again, the public screwed by big banks, and Congress can claim credit.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by redsky49 View Post
    Great reference above. Once again, the public screwed by big banks, and Congress can claim credit.
    Manipulation of a credit market? I wonder if the folks at AIG offer an insurance plan against the losses? Collateralized debt obligations anybody?

    This issue is different than the discussion on the cost of ethanol and gasoline, but the operating cost to the blenders has to be dealt with. As noted in the NY Times story, the credit market was based on the premise of increasing fuel (gasoline) demand and benchmark quantities of ethanol use. Since the market for gasoline (gallons sold) has dropped, the credit system is now upside down and the value of the credits has become a speculative item for some banks and other Wall Street wunderkinds.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Considering that the per gallon wholesale price of ethanol has been lower than that of Unleaded regular since 2010, I don't see how the analyst can make his claim. As is, the loss of sales in the ethanol market is depressing corn commodity prices.

    But, the claim will receive lots of air play on some news outlets and that is how the analyst markets his services.......
    The wholesale price is a sham as the subsidy (which obviously comes from our pocket) equals "paying" for ethanol "before" it gets priced or pumped & becomes a part of the wholesale price plus whatever role it's production takes through use of much petroleum in first place.Those trucks & tractors don't run on corn juice very often.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

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    from what I remember about ethanol production in my state, tax supported ethanol plants were constructed over the last several decades, hundreds of millions, probably well into the billions by now, and then run by, one would guess, well politically connected buddies of whatever party happened to be in power? It's the reverse Midas touch. If it doesn't work, throw some more of the people's labor at it, make a speech or two about the wonderfully brilliant public servants, and build some more plants while raving about an environmentally useless irrational use of a food product. should be great fun when the truth about the real costs of ethanol finally get exposed, say in about fifty years. that's a one cents worth of IMO.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ninety8 View Post
    from what I remember about ethanol production in my state, tax supported ethanol plants were constructed over the last several decades, hundreds of millions, probably well into the billions by now, and then run by, one would guess, well politically connected buddies of whatever party happened to be in power? It's the reverse Midas touch.
    Hmm........sounds just like the

    BMW plant in SC
    Mercedes plant in AL
    VW Plant in TN
    etc, etc...

    The locals get what they pay for..........it costs tax dollars to give free land, buildings, access roads and permanent tax credits to corporations.

    In this world, a community has a choice.........pay companies to locate in your area or deal with a dead economy. Hopefully, the company stays..............
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Hmm........sounds just like the

    BMW plant in SC
    Mercedes plant in AL
    VW Plant in TN
    etc, etc...

    Competing with other locations, who want the same factories which will produce a viable product, by allowing them to pay reduced taxes is not the same as the ethanol industry subsidies at all.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    Competing with other locations, who want the same factories which will produce a viable product, by allowing them to pay reduced taxes is not the same as the ethanol industry subsidies at all.
    A subsidy is a subsidy..........

    Just because is comes from a state vs the federal government.........it's the same thing

    In the third world, these things are called bribes
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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    A subsidy is a subsidy..........
    And a tax credit is a subsidy and Big Ethanol gets them. Huge difference. Of the auto companies you listed are any of them receiving tax credits or payment from any government? (Other than GM of course)

    Interesting explanation here from an economists perspective. http://theweek.com/article/index/247...anol-subsidies
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  15. #45
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    What I'm suggesting is that when the history of any boondoggle is finally written by competent impartial historians fifty years down the road, if any of us are still alive, what ethanol was really about will then be revealed. IMHO it likely will have little if nothing to do with air pollution, global warming or the toxification of carbon related compounds. And lots to do about money, who's got some, and who gets more, and the use of raw power so related. And motorcycling merely gets in the way.

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