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Thread: Corn lobby's response to all our ethanol threads

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by KJ6OCL View Post
    the actual price we are paying for gasoline is absurd! Many of us would stop driving our cars and trucks.

    Just saying.
    Look at Europe! These guys are still driving cars and trucks at $7.00/gallon. 65% diesel powered vehicles, however.

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    Politcs and fuel/motorcycles

    When analysing fuels, cars/trucks, motorcycles, and the synthesis of same, it is virtually impossible to discuss any of it without stepping into the political arena. All vehicles today are de facto government designed by the various laws applied thereto. Same for fuels. So, we either agree to not post about fuel and or vehicle designs, engine management systems and the like, all now mandated by federal/state agencies through regulations, or we give in and have at it. Guess it's not possible considering the vast rift now apparent in our society when it comes to atempting a rational discussion bordering on these gov. agency designed parameters. Last time I checked, guess what?, agencies are nothing more than a bunch of humans just like ourselves, and if we don't discuss what they tell us to do, they just keep telling us what to do.

    Tried to not state anything about ethanol, fuels, vehicular design, etc., and fully accept a time out, but I couldn't help saying something as innocuous as possible.

  3. #18
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    Purpose

    I posted this piece because I thought it reflected a nervous lobby desperate to sway the masses away from the facts and issues. I thought it reflected a victory in a way; if they are that nervous and desperate our exclamations on-line, voting at the pump with our pocket book, must be working. And I also wanted to illustrate how insulting the corporate landscape can be, pontificating with hubris from their bully pulpit.
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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    Look at Europe! These guys are still driving cars and trucks at $7.00/gallon. 65% diesel powered vehicles, however.
    True, but diesel prices in Europe are notably lower than gasoline prices. That, coupled with the fact that, in general, diesel engines get better fuel economy and it's easy to understand why they are more popular than here in the States.
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  5. #20
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    You can not compaire Europe prices to US

    Make no mistake: the price of the raw gas is about the same as the U.S., but Europe taxes gasoline at a higher rate. At the moment, taxes in France make up about 56 percent of the pump price.
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    We rode from Oregon to Arkansas via a southern route and then back home via a northern route this summer. In Oregon everything is E10. Quite hard to find straight gas. I thought it was odd that the further we got from home, the less E10 we saw and the easier it was to find pure gas, and cheaper. Then on the return trip, prices slowly rose and pure gas became increasingly hard to find until we could not find at as the norm, yup, back in the NW.
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  7. #22
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    Is ethanol a wrong path? When corn is food,not fuel?

    Hmm.These are thoughtful comments not Obama Birther politics. I live in Canada and I have not seen any gas only option. Every pump I see has ethanol. Never mind the engineering issues. I ride a 95 R100RT and an 04 K1200 GT. Neither was designed for gasohol. Dunno if they will both find premature engine or other component failure or not. What does concern me more is the diversion of corn as a fundamental food for much of the world,to feed gasoline engines, when really, oil is plentiful and food is less so, in some places. I am thinking of those satellite photos that show the lights of the eastern seaboard in particular where the huge preponderance of energy is used/wasted compared to the rest of the world.
    Sometimes,nothing is a real cool hand.

  8. #23
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    Beware of cost and production assumptions......

    Ethanol prices vs unleaded gas: 1982 to current

    http://www.neo.ne.gov/statshtml/66.html

    Corn commodity prices 1988 to current

    http://www.indexmundi.com/commoditie...orn&months=300

    US Corn Production

    http://www.indexmundi.com/agricultur...aph=production

    Interestingly, there was effectively no increase in corn commodity prices from 1984 to 2006. Couple that reality with rising oil prices (fuel and fertilizer costs) and declining US exchange rates after 2000, it's surprising that any sane person would be involved with this business.
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  9. #24
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    Nothing like a little "truth" and some clear "facts" to set the record straight.
    I call it a big load of pure (not blended- no bs15) BS.
    Anything I might have said on this subject has already been posted.

    However I will add that America's obsession with NASCAR is almost as good a mechanism for garnering enthusiasm in advertising as sex is. Well- ALMOST.

    To add levity to this dark subject-

    With all this corn flooding the markets....
    How come my LIKKER h'ain't got no cheaper?
    Now if y'all will EXCUUUUSE me, there's more pressing issues at hand-
    I cain't find my remote.
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    Having just ridden across MT, ND, SD, IO, IL, IN, OH, I noticed all the corn was stunted and brown apparently for lack of water. IL, IN, and OH seemed particularly hard hit with fields of brown corn (no green at all) as far as I could see. Hell with ADM and the stupid Big Ethanol industry, I'm just concerned how it will effect the whisky distilleries.
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  11. #26
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    OK -- The weenie in me made me do it.....

    The internet is a wonderful thing......sometimes. All this inflation data (CPI) on the BLS site and commodity information on Indexmundi.com.....you can really see the historical shift in prices. As such, gasoline and corn prices both dropped in the late 80's and 90's, when adjusted for inflation. Gasoline returned to the 1984 prices in 2005 while corn didn't recover until 2011. Of course, these values only reflect US dollar inflation and may not accurately show the impact of exchange rates.



    Corn & Gas.emf.png
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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    Having just ridden across MT, ND, SD, IO, IL, IN, OH, I noticed all the corn was stunted and brown apparently for lack of water. IL, IN, and OH seemed particularly hard hit with fields of brown corn (no green at all) as far as I could see. Hell with ADM and the stupid Big Ethanol industry, I'm just concerned how it will effect the whisky distilleries.
    The corn is brown because its almost fall and what your seeing is feed corn not sweet corn so its not harvested until it dries up to a certain degree. If I understand correctly the moisture level is different for corn that will be turned in to grain to be used in different products as opposed to that which is harvested for animal feed but regardless its brown because its harvest time not because the lack of water.

  13. #28
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    That inflation adjusted graph for corn price is apparently yet another case of lying with numbers- by using some weird way of trying to factor out inflation.
    1984 is ancient history and of no relevance to today- and it wasn't exactly a high point in our economy, either.

    A significant problem with current corn prices is the ripple effect on all food prices. I do my own food shopping so can't help but notice that many food prices are up more than 20% in the last year or 2. While it doesn't do much to me economically, it is certainly a significant issue for the increasing number of working poor in this country. The same Washington folks who gave the subsidy to big agribusiness for EtOH are now cutting food stamps for the poor.

    Locally, this year we've got a early season start on the usual end of year uptick in property thefts and burglaries- to the extent that the local PD has issued neighborhood specific warnings in print and online to those living in the impacted (all low income) neighborhoods. I wonder if this will become a permanent problem.

  14. #29
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    Getting off carbon based fuels is great in theory but a real long way from ever happening. The only trend that seems inevitable is natural gas replacing a lot of coal use over the next 10-20 years (no sympathy from me for coal users or producers who have done more than their share of environmental destruction for a long time).

    Today we can barely make an electric car and haven't yet come close to making any at a competitive average price. Electric trucks and other heavy long haul stuff are even less likely in the near future. Battery technology isn't seeing any breakthroughs and that stored electricity has to come from someplace.

    Solar and wind both would eat large amounts of land to produce serious power (though when compared to all the flooded land consumed to make fairly low hydro amounts they might not look so bad) and nuclear is always opposed despite its generally good safety record (outside of Russia's stupid plant design that lead to Chernobyl, even 3 Mile Island produced more hype than real problems).

    I figure there is a 50/50 chance I might see electric cages in common use eventually but virtually no progression to anything other than increased natural gas use (possibly even for trucks, etc) with only a tiny bit of wind and solar. Heck, here in NC we're wasting about 5 years just talking about where wind generators could go offshore, despite having what is easily the most wind favorable offshore location in the country (lots of square miles of water under 100 ft deep going almost 50 miles offshore in many places, plenty of wind, etc). The negative arguments are virtually all "we don't want to see a wind generator from the beach" Depending on height, the might need to be 15 miles or a bit more offshore to do that....

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    Today we can barely make an electric car and haven't yet come close to making any at a competitive average price. Electric trucks and other heavy long haul stuff are even less likely in the near future. Battery technology isn't seeing any breakthroughs and that stored electricity has to come from someplace.
    Trains, ships, cars, etc.............Hybrid technology has been here for a few decades and is here to stay.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel-electric

    When you speak of batteries........you have to expand your mind to include any reaction that yields electricity.

    In regards to stationary power production, the current utility rates for electricity pretty much preclude any new plant construction, excluding the rare case of exiting plant failure. Accordingly, 60+ year old coal plants stay in production using replacement parts from third world suppliers that carter to the third world plants constructed at the end of the colonial era in Asia, Africa and South America.
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