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Thread: SPEED KILLS (Your Pocketbook)

  1. #31
    rangerreece rangerreece's Avatar
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    I like this thread good discussion. It seems the majority of attitudes are leaning in a direction of more liberal rules with more conservative enforcement, or maybe my view is tainted as that is my position...
    If in fact that is a general consensus on this forum I think it would be interesting to note our demographic; and by that I specifically would draw your attention to the notion that those calling for this change are not what one might expect, one would expect a lot of 20 year old males riding crotch rockets who believe they are invincible to be advocates for relaxed speed limits, but as far as I can tell on this forum, we're not. One would be wise to take that into account when forming an opinion or enacting a law. If a conservative, safe, responsible, proven track record, demographic think the laws don't reflect their needs it would stand to give one pause and maybe rethink the issue.
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  2. #32
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    Wouldn't it be great if qualified drivers/riders could get permission to drive fast?

    We all have a special notation on our driver's licenses that permit us to operate motorcycles.

    What if, in exchange for high-liability insurance and special driver's training and testing, we were allowed to legally exceed posted highway speed limits? Certainly reckless driving would not be tolerated, and perhaps a one strike and you're out policy would be prudent. Seems viable to me.

  3. #33
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    .................

    If no speed limits are a good thing, why did the state of Montana reinstate theirs?
    From what I understand, it was due to a lawsuit. The law was subjective, and a guy got a speeding ticket, as the cop had a different interpretation of reasonable speed, than the ticketed driver. So the driver took it to court and out of the mess, the state government decided that the way the former law was written was in essence not enforceable, so they put a value on reasonable.
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  4. #34
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pffog View Post
    From what I understand, it was due to a lawsuit. The law was subjective, and a guy got a speeding ticket, as the cop had a different interpretation of reasonable speed, than the ticketed driver. So the driver took it to court and out of the mess, the state government decided that the way the former law was written was in essence not enforceable, so they put a value on reasonable.
    You mean a law that establishes a minimum standard of conduct? That's novel.
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  5. #35
    100,000+ miler 32232's Avatar
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    The principal point to be taken here is that Canadian speed limits are artificially low. I had just started driving in the 1970's when the limit on Ontario's 400 series highways was reduced from 70 mph to 60mph. (pre-metric days) The justification given was fuel savings because of the energy crisis. When the "crisis" was over American speed limits went up, but Canadian politicians didn't reciprocate.

    Vehicles are far more fuel efficient today, far safer and highways are still designed for significantly higher speeds than the current 100 km/h limit. Transport Canada statistics show that vehicular injuries and fatalities are at their lowest rates in decades. Only a tiny percentage are attributed to excessive speed, and in those cases it's mostly relative to weather conditions.

    Given current technology and the huge distances encountered in Canada the low speed limits are a travesty. The functional speed limit driving through Toronto (other than at rush hour) is 125+/-, with the speed limit unenforced. I would urge Ontario residents to look at stop100.ca. I signed their petition and sent the e-mails and just got a response from the Minister of Transportation. Maybe there is some hope.
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  6. #36
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 32232 View Post
    The principal point to be taken here is that Canadian speed limits are artificially low. I had just started driving in the 1970's when the limit on Ontario's 400 series highways was reduced from 70 mph to 60mph. (pre-metric days) The justification given was fuel savings because of the energy crisis. When the "crisis" was over American speed limits went up, but Canadian politicians didn't reciprocate.

    Vehicles are far more fuel efficient today, far safer and highways are still designed for significantly higher speeds than the current 100 km/h limit. Transport Canada statistics show that vehicular injuries and fatalities are at their lowest rates in decades. Only a tiny percentage are attributed to excessive speed, and in those cases it's mostly relative to weather conditions.

    Given current technology and the huge distances encountered in Canada the low speed limits are a travesty. The functional speed limit driving through Toronto (other than at rush hour) is 125+/-, with the speed limit unenforced. I would urge Ontario residents to look at stop100.ca. I signed their petition and sent the e-mails and just got a response from the Minister of Transportation. Maybe there is some hope.
    Dave,

    Are you saying you want 82.5-mph to be the speed limit on the road from Windsor to Toronto? I-95 from NYC to the DC beltway is only 65-mph.

    Jon
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  7. #37
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    This is a good thread. One of the things that seems to be lightly pointed out is that the few push the envelope so government has to set limits.

    I have two points to make: Older gent in a Buick doing 60 kmh on a two lane highway designated to be 100 kmh. In Canada, my province anyway, he has the right to do so. Push the speed limit up to reasonable for a nice highway, accidents will happen.

    Middle of winter, icy highway designated 100 kmh, reasonable speed is way lower. Somebody, either a new driver or a New Canadian will set their cruise at the posted limit. It usually isn't long before the vehicle is upside down in the rhubarb and if they are still alive, have a look of' "what just happened?" In Canada, the posted limits are only when safe to do so.

    For those of you unfamiliar with treacherous ice conditions, never, ever, use your cruise control. That one should be a law.

    In my case, I had a 6,000 kg, four wheel drive service truck, doing 80 kmh in a designated 100 kmh on a really bad day. Icy, low visibility but I still thought I was being careful. The RCMP dis-agreed, pulled me over, handed me a ticket for "Imprudent Driving". An HTA offense that came with a $680.00 fine and four demerit points. That drove my license up and removed any discount on my vehicle insurance.

    I still don't what that RCMP Officer was thinking when he had to get his ancient Crown Vic turned around and chase me down.
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  8. #38
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    The higher your speed, the lower your miles-per-gallon.

    Safety is only one factor in speeding. When most people are 10 or 15 mph over already high speed limits of 70 mph or 75 mph, fuel economy takes a nose dive and CO2 emissions rise greatly as well. It doesn't help that most are driving gas-hogs.

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  9. #39
    100,000+ miler 32232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Dave,

    Are you saying you want 82.5-mph to be the speed limit on the road from Windsor to Toronto? I-95 from NYC to the DC beltway is only 65-mph.

    Jon
    120 km/h with zero tolerance would be my choice. Prevailing speed is 115-120 in the left lane, faster in metro Toronto.

    I run with my cruise control set at 115 and cannot even count the number of times the OPP have been running radar and you just cruise right by them. I haven't had a ticket in 30 years with that strategy. Demerit points and an increased fine schedule begin at 116km/h and they can't be bothered to write a ticket for less than that.

    As it sits now vehicles doing 100 in the right lane are mobile chicanes, and if you aren't doing 115 you get passed by the majority of the cars. The worst thing is when somebody doing 120 sees a cop and stands on the brakes causing a near pileup. The problem is the bar is set artificially low, people ignore it and there is minimal enforcement. Right now nobody even knows where the bar is set.

    Better to set a realistic limit, announce there will be zero tolerance and stick to that.
    Dave

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  10. #40
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    When most people are 10 or 15 mph over already high speed limits of 70 mph or 75 mph, fuel economy takes a nose dive
    Harry,

    Some people apparently want to spend more money to travel a given distance. In the wide open expanse beyond the Mississippi River, I understand speed limits of 70 or, perhaps, 80 mph. But, from the Midwest to the east coast, traffic and population density dictates lower speeds.

    Jon
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  11. #41
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AKsuited View Post
    The higher your speed, the lower your miles-per-gallon.

    Safety is only one factor in speeding. When most people are 10 or 15 mph over already high speed limits of 70 mph or 75 mph, fuel economy takes a nose dive and CO2 emissions rise greatly as well. It doesn't help that most are driving gas-hogs.

    Harry
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  12. #42
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    You are missing the point...............the few.

    It costs me $2600.00 a year to ride my bike, fire and THEFT included. I can thank the Squids and our younger First Nations Aboriginal young people looking for a quick ride for my ability to enjoy 5 months of riding at that cost.

    My 1997, short box 4wd Chevy Truck with an LT1 engine costs me $2000.00 a year to drive as a "pleasure" vehicle. That's a maximum of twice a month I'm allowed to use it for work.

    It's Government and Insurance companies hammering the responsible ones.

    Government doesn't want to be accused of "putting you in harm's way".

    Insurance companies don't want me slamming into your Mother/Father with 144,000 lbs and 500 horsepower attached to your butt. Costs too much.

    You want to make change?

    Get your Mother/Father to take a mandatory driver's test after age 70. If they fail, suck it up and get them where they need to be.

    Put your kidlets on a graduated system that forces them to drive with responsibility. Check their "party" and see if the know the difference between black ice and black asphalt.

    It's the few. "bogthebasher" has the right name. It's too bad he's a smart guy and is so, very, shortsighted.

    Check out "Ice Road Truckers". They are a giggle. Too stupid to realize they are that stupid.

    Check out "Highway Thru Hell". Are you kidding me? Tonka toys?

    They add fuel to Government and Insurance companies because they think we are...............
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  13. #43
    Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197 bogthebasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post

    It's the few. "bogthebasher" has the right name. It's too bad he's a smart guy and is so, very, shortsighted.
    .
    Hey guys, I did not make that video nor did I state and opinion on this other than to say this was an interesting point of view. Bye the way I actually make every attempt to obey speed limits in every geography I ride in.

    Hate to admit it, but 30 years ago while in University I played 'Dungeons and Dragons' and Bog the Basher was my character name. In real life I am a wimp who slows down !0% for rain and 20% or more for ice. I think the commentary for this thread has been quite good with alternate points of view debated well.

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  14. #44
    Cowboyatheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by dieselyoda View Post
    It costs me $2600.00 a year to ride my bike, fire and THEFT included. I can thank the Squids and our younger First Nations Aboriginal young people looking for a quick ride for my ability to enjoy 5 months of riding at that cost.

    My 1997, short box 4wd Chevy Truck with an LT1 engine costs me $2000.00 a year to drive as a "pleasure" vehicle. That's a maximum of twice a month I'm allowed to use it for work.

    It's Government and Insurance companies hammering the responsible ones.

    Government doesn't want to be accused of "putting you in harm's way".

    Insurance companies don't want me slamming into your Mother/Father with 144,000 lbs and 500 horsepower attached to your butt. Costs too much.

    You want to make change?

    Get your Mother/Father to take a mandatory driver's test after age 70. If they fail, suck it up and get them where they need to be.

    Put your kidlets on a graduated system that forces them to drive with responsibility. Check their "party" and see if the know the difference between black ice and black asphalt.

    It's the few. "bogthebasher" has the right name. It's too bad he's a smart guy and is so, very, shortsighted.

    Check out "Ice Road Truckers". They are a giggle. Too stupid to realize they are that stupid.

    Check out "Highway Thru Hell". Are you kidding me? Tonka toys?

    They add fuel to Government and Insurance companies because they think we are...............
    Actually I am a confused about exactly what point is being made here.

    IMO driver training, testing (paper and road) and re-testing (paper and road) each time your licence is renewed should be mandatory. Training and testing need to be stepped up, rather than the minimum it takes to get a licence these days, at least in BC.

    Then ticket the offences that cause accidents. Not some arbitrary, easy to do, money grab - speeding beyond a posted limit. Yes speeding should be severely punished where it counts, school zones and playgrounds, for example.

    On the hwy, and in the city, most accidents are caused by unskilled drivers, drivers who are distracted with doing other things (cell phones, texting, putting on make-up, reading the newspaper, fiddling with the pleasure gadgets in the car, alcohol, and some drugs (meth) being one of them, and occasionally just plain mistakes (you know when you've made one, and most of the time it is while being distracted - replaying the fight with spouse, co-worker, boss or that annoying cell phone provider that has crappy customer service (for examples).

    So train properly, test properly, re-test every five years on license renewal, and ticket those folks whose behaviours cause accidents. Speeding is way down on the list, but easy to point to. If people are properly trained they wouldn't exceed a safe speed given the existing road conditions; that includes sunny dry weather, wet rainy dark weather, night driving and snow and/or ice.

    And yes, yank licences for people who don't pass the tests.

    Then put the LEOs on things that matter, and this list is huge, crime, murder, spouse abuse, children abuse...

  15. #45
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    You got the point I was trying to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by nelliott View Post
    Actually I am a confused about exactly what point is being made here.

    IMO driver training, testing (paper and road) and re-testing (paper and road) each time your licence is renewed should be mandatory. Training and testing need to be stepped up, rather than the minimum it takes to get a licence these days, at least in BC.

    Then ticket the offences that cause accidents. Not some arbitrary, easy to do, money grab - speeding beyond a posted limit. Yes speeding should be severely punished where it counts, school zones and playgrounds, for example.

    On the hwy, and in the city, most accidents are caused by unskilled drivers, drivers who are distracted with doing other things (cell phones, texting, putting on make-up, reading the newspaper, fiddling with the pleasure gadgets in the car, alcohol, and some drugs (meth) being one of them, and occasionally just plain mistakes (you know when you've made one, and most of the time it is while being distracted - replaying the fight with spouse, co-worker, boss or that annoying cell phone provider that has crappy customer service (for examples).

    So train properly, test properly, re-test every five years on license renewal, and ticket those folks whose behaviours cause accidents. Speeding is way down on the list, but easy to point to. If people are properly trained they wouldn't exceed a safe speed given the existing road conditions; that includes sunny dry weather, wet rainy dark weather, night driving and snow and/or ice.

    And yes, yank licences for people who don't pass the tests.

    Then put the LEOs on things that matter, and this list is huge, crime, murder, spouse abuse, children abuse...
    It's the stupid people, inexperienced, and the list goes on. Speed limits are about the only enforceable option governments, law enforcement and insurance companies have. They can't hand out fines for being stupid.

    And you are absolutely right, there are a lot worse crimes out there than speeding but investigating and bringing criminals to justice costs money. Catching speeders is a revenue stream.

    I like this post............and I can't where bi-focals, makes my brain hurt.
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