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Thread: What happened to the MSF ERC course?

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    Registered User txmxrider's Avatar
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    What happened to the MSF ERC course?

    It's been a number of years since I last had any formal mc training so this evening I started looking around for an MSF ERC course somewhere near Athens GA. I want to brush up on my skills but all I can find on the MSF website is a basic course for getting a mc endorsement on your drivers license. I've had that for 40 years. I'm looking for the equivalent of what used to be called the ERC (Experienced Rider Course). Is that no longer available or what took its place?
    txmxrider
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    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    Try looking for an Advanced Riders Course.
    Kevin Huddy
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    Registered User txmxrider's Avatar
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    Ah ha, that worked. I plugged that into google and it popped right up. Weird, but the link on the top of the MSF home page doesn't take you there but the link on the side does. Regardless, I have it now. Thanks for the tip!
    txmxrider
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    Novice Adventurer Newstar's Avatar
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    It is now referred to as the BRC2.

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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txmxrider View Post
    Ah ha, that worked. I plugged that into google and it popped right up. Weird, but the link on the top of the MSF home page doesn't take you there but the link on the side does. Regardless, I have it now. Thanks for the tip!
    The ERC still exists - now rebadged as the BRC2.

    The ARC is a totally different animal than the BRC2 (ERC).

    Research the differences before you decide which would benefit you the most.

    Good Luck!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
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    For an experienced rider, especially one who has taken the ERC previously, I would recommend the ARC.

    I consider the BRC2 to be more aptly identifed by it's new name, the Basic Rider Course 2, than when it was The Course Formerly Known As the Experienced Rider Course.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    For an experienced rider, especially one who has taken the ERC previously, I would recommend the ARC.

    I consider the BRC2 to be more aptly identifed by it's new name, the Basic Rider Course 2, than when it was The Course Formerly Known As the Experienced Rider Course.
    That's an accurate summation.


    Ride safe and often!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

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    Registered User txmxrider's Avatar
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    I spent some time poking around on the internet reading reviews and comments people made after taking the MSF courses. Based on that plus the rather limited details on the MSF website I think the ARC is the one I want. One thing that I find interesting is that it appears the ARC course (and other MSF courses) vary from state to state and even location to location. I suppose that's because it gets co-opted by whoever is providing the course...college, state agency, m/c dealership, etc. I find that a little odd. I would expect the MSF to have the course curriculum pretty well ironed out and standardized. I can see maybe one set of instructors covering a particular topic a little heavier than another based on the level of competence of the participants, but from the comments I read on the internet some folks get a course that is almost unrecognizable by others who took the same course somewhere else. I thought the MSF would keep tighter control of the contents so everyone gets basically the same information. In other words, if something is worth including (or deleting) in PA, then it ought to be worth including in GA too.

    Fwiw, I'll be taking the ARC at the MSF training grounds in Alphretta GA, so I assume it will be the "official" version and not that of a Harley dealership or DMV.
    txmxrider
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    Quote Originally Posted by txmxrider View Post
    I spent some time poking around on the internet reading reviews and comments people made after taking the MSF courses. Based on that plus the rather limited details on the MSF website I think the ARC is the one I want. One thing that I find interesting is that it appears the ARC course (and other MSF courses) vary from state to state and even location to location. I suppose that's because it gets co-opted by whoever is providing the course...college, state agency, m/c dealership, etc. I find that a little odd. I would expect the MSF to have the course curriculum pretty well ironed out and standardized. I can see maybe one set of instructors covering a particular topic a little heavier than another based on the level of competence of the participants, but from the comments I read on the internet some folks get a course that is almost unrecognizable by others who took the same course somewhere else. I thought the MSF would keep tighter control of the contents so everyone gets basically the same information. In other words, if something is worth including (or deleting) in PA, then it ought to be worth including in GA too.

    Fwiw, I'll be taking the ARC at the MSF training grounds in Alphretta GA, so I assume it will be the "official" version and not that of a Harley dealership or DMV.
    There should be very little variation between what one site or state offers as a particular MSF course, and whatever someone else offers as that same course. Exercises are tightly prescribed as to what & how, there should be virtually NO variation with them. Classroom content can get augmented (for example, NY state requires an additional hour of classroom that addresses NY motor vehicle laws; MD sets the standard for successful completion at a lower point threshold than most states, making a completion card harder to obtain from them, etc) and the nature/technique of classroom delivery can vary widely (and that is with MSF's approval).. but the riding exercises should really vary virtually not at all.
    If reviews indicated a variance in that portion of the course content, my first inclination would be to believe that it is consumers not really knowing what they did, rather than actual changes between the courses.
    I'd be curious to read some of the comments that you read that implied different content.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    There should be very little variation between what one site or state offers as a particular MSF course, and whatever someone else offers as that same course. Exercises are tightly prescribed as to what & how, there should be virtually NO variation with them. Classroom content can get augmented (for example, NY state requires an additional hour of classroom that addresses NY motor vehicle laws; MD sets the standard for successful completion at a lower point threshold than most states, making a completion card harder to obtain from them, etc) and the nature/technique of classroom delivery can vary widely (and that is with MSF's approval).. but the riding exercises should really vary virtually not at all.
    If reviews indicated a variance in that portion of the course content, my first inclination would be to believe that it is consumers not really knowing what they did, rather than actual changes between the courses.
    I'd be curious to read some of the comments that you read that implied different content.
    YUP - what he said.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  11. #11
    Registered User txmxrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    There should be very little variation between what one site or state offers as a particular MSF course, and whatever someone else offers as that same course. Exercises are tightly prescribed as to what & how, there should be virtually NO variation with them. Classroom content can get augmented (for example, NY state requires an additional hour of classroom that addresses NY motor vehicle laws; MD sets the standard for successful completion at a lower point threshold than most states, making a completion card harder to obtain from them, etc) and the nature/technique of classroom delivery can vary widely (and that is with MSF's approval).. but the riding exercises should really vary virtually not at all.
    If reviews indicated a variance in that portion of the course content, my first inclination would be to believe that it is consumers not really knowing what they did, rather than actual changes between the courses.
    I'd be curious to read some of the comments that you read that implied different content.

    Hey, it was on the internet, it has to be right! LOL! It's not a big deal really. I'm going to go and have fun and I'm sure I'll learn a lot regardless, but just for the sake of argument, here's one thread I saw. There were others but I can't remember now what key words I used when I found those. http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...TOPIC_ID=14142

    I'm really looking forward to the class. It's two months away and I'm already nervous. I just hope I'm not the squid that drops his bike out on the course!

    Question: Should I leave the saddlebags on or take them off? I'm thinking I should leave them on since that's the way I ride 99.9% of the time.
    txmxrider
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    2003 BMW K1200GT

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    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by txmxrider View Post
    Hey, it was on the internet, it has to be right! LOL! It's not a big deal really. I'm going to go and have fun and I'm sure I'll learn a lot regardless, but just for the sake of argument, here's one thread I saw. There were others but I can't remember now what key words I used when I found those. http://www.msgroup.org/forums/mtt/to...TOPIC_ID=14142

    I'm really looking forward to the class. It's two months away and I'm already nervous. I just hope I'm not the squid that drops his bike out on the course!

    Question: Should I leave the saddlebags on or take them off? I'm thinking I should leave them on since that's the way I ride 99.9% of the time.
    Unless loaded for touring, saddlebags will not affect your balance all that much. Removing them may calm your nerves a bit.

    When I took the ARC with my R1200RT, I took off bags and trunk - bike performance felt no different.

    As for nerves, relax. The ARC is a progressively-orientated range curriculum - in other words, you work thru your comfort and skill levels to reach whatever skill set you are capable of - not trying to meet high expectations that you may or may not be capable of demonstrating.

    You will ride only to your personal ability and come away with greater confidence in how you handle your bike.

    Good luck!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  13. #13
    Registered User txmxrider's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips Kevin!
    txmxrider
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    If you make it safely from Athens down Hwy 316 to I 85 to I 285N to Hwy 400 to Alpharetta, you have passed the ARC! Good luck.
    Sam, ( Lula, Ga.)

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    Registered User txmxrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srbmw View Post
    If you make it safely from Athens down Hwy 316 to I 85 to I 285N to Hwy 400 to Alpharetta, you have passed the ARC! Good luck.
    Sam, ( Lula, Ga.)
    ROFL! You got that right!
    txmxrider
    2004 KTM 300 EXC
    1999 BMW R1100S
    2003 BMW K1200GT

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