Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 55

Thread: 2013 R1200RT....motor oil question...

  1. #31
    Registered User David13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Lomita, California
    Posts
    773
    What I use is Amsoil 20w50 in the engine. Full synthetic.
    And SAFXO or whatever, a 75-90 in the rear end.
    But the original recommendation, I don't know if it's still the recommendation, was 75-140 for the transmission, which is what I just put in.
    The only one I could find was Valvoline synthetic. That's what I use in the transmission.
    You can use what you want, I suppose, and probably have no problem with it.
    dc

  2. #32
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Fountain Hills AZ
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by natrab View Post
    Hey. You can all thank me for reviving this oil thread. I'm coming up to my first 12k service for my '13 RT and I'm getting my fluids together.

    In summary from this thread, it seems the ONLY oil BMW allows you to use in the transmission and final drive of the camheads is the Castrol SAF-XO (AKA Syntrax Long Life 75W-90), which is not available from any third party parts supplier here in the US. The only oil that can be used is the BMW OEM spec gear oil (part number 07512293972, which upon searching on a microfiche states it replaced the part number 33117695240 as specified in the RepROM). The best deal I can find on this is about $22 a liter online and is probably more at a dealership.

    Considering I haven't seen specs defined anywhere for my camhead other than Castrol SAF-XO, to keep my extended warranty valid I suppose I will have to go buy the BMW OEM fluid (first time in my life ever doing that, lol).

    Sound about right?
    Allows? If that's true, then they have to pay for it.
    My Motorrad
    BMWMOA 162849 | BMWRA 41335 | VROC 8109-R | VBA 19

  3. #33
    Registered User natrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Oakley, CA
    Posts
    197
    RTgearoil.jpg

    Well, according to the RepROM, the gear oil is Castrol SAF-XO. It doesn't even specify the weight or any other details or specs. Nowhere in the user's manual does it state what type of transmission oil to use. Notice how for engine oil they can say they recommend Castrol, but don't mandate it. The way they specify it for the transmission oil (and final drive) seems to make it mandatory.

    Now Castrol doesn't sell SAF-XO here in the states. Only BMW does, branded in their own bottle. If I were to use something else (say any type of GL5 75W90 gear oil) and my transmission were to fail while under warranty, they could simply say I was using the wrong transmission oil as specified by their service manual. So as far as I can see, the only safe route for me is to pick up the BMW gear oil. Thankfully it appears to have had the price reduced as early reports showed it selling at around $50 a liter.

    Oh, and here's something funny. Looking at my older RepROM (pre-camhead version), here's what it specifies for the 05-09 RTs:

    RTgearoil2.jpg

    In the old RepROM it specifies GL-5 SAE 90 gear oil. In the new version it specifies the SAF-XO for the same bike's gear oil. It's clear they just decided to list that one specifically for all gear/final drive oil. Notice even in the old RepROM it specified the final drive oil as SAF-XO (due to the "lifetime" fill I suppose).
    Nate R
    2013 R1200RT 90th - "Tyr" - Purchased 12/13/2013 brand new!
    2007 R1200S - "Sexy Beast"
    2006 R1200RT "Wōden" - 84k - Retired and sold

  4. #34
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Fountain Hills AZ
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by natrab View Post
    RTgearoil.jpg

    Well, according to the RepROM, the gear oil is Castrol SAF-XO. It doesn't even specify the weight or any other details or specs. Nowhere in the user's manual does it state what type of transmission oil to use. Notice how for engine oil they can say they recommend Castrol, but don't mandate it. The way the specify it for the transmission oil (and final drive) seems to make it mandatory.

    Now Castrol doesn't sell SAF-XO here in the states. Only BMW does, branded in their own bottle. If I were to use something else (say any type of GL5 75W90 gear oil) and my transmission were to fail while under warranty, they could simply say I was using the wrong transmission oil as specified by their service manual. So as far as I can see, the only safe route for me is to pick up the BMW gear oil. Thankfully it appears to have had the price reduced as early reports showed it selling at around $50 a liter.

    Oh, and here's something funny. Looking at my older RepROM (pre-camhead version), here's what it specifies for the 05-09 RTs:

    RTgearoil2.jpg

    In the old RepROM it specifies GL-5 SAE 90 gear oil. In the new version it specifies the SAF-XO for the same bike's gear oil. It's clear they just decided to list that one specifically for all gear/final drive oil. Notice even in the old RepROM it specified the final drive oil as SAF-XO (due to the "lifetime" fill I suppose).
    The magnuson moss warranty act. If a manufacturer requires a specific oil lets say or gear oil, they have to supply it at their cost. They can only give a specification it has to meet. Of course they'd like the BMW dealer to do all the services and use only BMW supplied parts and fluids, but then they'd have to pay for that too if it was necessary. Look at the owner's manual. What does it specify?
    My Motorrad
    BMWMOA 162849 | BMWRA 41335 | VROC 8109-R | VBA 19

  5. #35
    Registered User natrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Oakley, CA
    Posts
    197
    The owner's manual makes no mention of fluids for the gearbox or FD.

    Considering I only need slightly more than a liter (1060ccs to be precise) for 24k of riding, it's really not a big deal. I just have always preferred to have my choice of manufacturer based on the oil spec instead of being stuck buying only the OEM product.

    Perhaps an email to BMW could clarify if they are specifying an oil type or requiring a specific oil for their transmission and FD.

    *edit* I may have found it in the US: http://www.ecstuning.com/ES2562683/
    Last edited by natrab; 03-30-2014 at 09:07 AM.
    Nate R
    2013 R1200RT 90th - "Tyr" - Purchased 12/13/2013 brand new!
    2007 R1200S - "Sexy Beast"
    2006 R1200RT "Wōden" - 84k - Retired and sold

  6. #36
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Fountain Hills AZ
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by natrab View Post
    The owner's manual makes no mention of fluids for the gearbox or FD.

    Considering I only need slightly more than a liter (1060ccs to be precise) for 24k of riding, it's really not a big deal. I just have always preferred to have my choice of manufacturer based on the oil spec instead of being stuck buying only the OEM product.

    Perhaps an email to BMW could clarify if they are specifying an oil type or requiring a specific oil for their transmission and FD.

    *edit* I may have found it in the US: http://www.ecstuning.com/ES2562683/
    I've also heard Land Rover sells the same fluid. For me, it's not so much the price, but also availability and personal choice as I use Mobil 1 products. As long as it meets the specs, it's ok and that's the point.
    My Motorrad
    BMWMOA 162849 | BMWRA 41335 | VROC 8109-R | VBA 19

  7. #37
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Albuquerque, NM
    Posts
    4,801
    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    I've also heard Land Rover sells the same fluid. For me, it's not so much the price, but also availability and personal choice as I use Mobil 1 products. As long as it meets the specs, it's ok and that's the point.
    That's funny.

    The "specs" are SAF-XO. Does your choice specifically say in print on the bottle it can replace SAF-XO? If not, well it doesn't meet the spec.

    SAF-XO is a special formulation developed specifically for BMW to facilitate lifetime fill. It's what the transmission was designed around. The fact BMW now specifies change intervals changes nothing. (They don't fwiw in cars requiring this). Rear drive failures had nothing to do with not changing the fluid---they were manufacturing issues.

    GL-5 and 75W-90 are minimum specs and BMW wants more.

    Folks just need to understand that German auto industry engineers and designers never for a nanosecond anticipate DIY maintenance via Pep Boys or WalMart. Yes, it's the "merikun way," but it's irrelevant. The USA is not the leader of the automotive world.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  8. #38
    Registered User natrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Oakley, CA
    Posts
    197
    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    That's funny.

    The "specs" are SAF-XO. Does your choice specifically say in print on the bottle it can replace SAF-XO? If not, well it doesn't meet the spec.

    SAF-XO is a special formulation developed specifically for BMW to facilitate lifetime fill. It's what the transmission was designed around. The fact BMW now specifies change intervals changes nothing. (They don't fwiw in cars requiring this). Rear drive failures had nothing to do with not changing the fluid---they were manufacturing issues.

    GL-5 and 75W-90 are minimum specs and BMW wants more.

    Folks just need to understand that German auto industry engineers and designers never for a nanosecond anticipate DIY maintenance via Pep Boys or WalMart. Yes, it's the "merikun way," but it's irrelevant. The USA is not the leader of the automotive world.
    I think it's clear that BMW wants you to buy and use their "special formula." I just have a hard time buying into that especially when in their older service manual for hexheads it simply specified GL-5 SAE 90 gear oil. Now in their latest rendition of the service manual for the same bike it says SAF-XO. Clearly the bike itself didn't change and when they first developed it they felt the standard gear oil was sufficient (and I didn't hear of many transmission failures while using it). My last bike had at least 50k miles on it using normal gear oil in both the transmission and FD and never had a problem. I think their mandatory SAF-XO is just a marketing ploy to make you buy a specific product only from BMW. Considering my new bike has a 5 year warranty, I'm now forced to comply. If my bike wasn't under warranty, I'd have no problem putting in standard gear oil.
    Nate R
    2013 R1200RT 90th - "Tyr" - Purchased 12/13/2013 brand new!
    2007 R1200S - "Sexy Beast"
    2006 R1200RT "Wōden" - 84k - Retired and sold

  9. #39
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Fountain Hills AZ
    Posts
    891
    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    That's funny.

    The "specs" are SAF-XO. Does your choice specifically say in print on the bottle it can replace SAF-XO? If not, well it doesn't meet the spec.

    SAF-XO is a special formulation developed specifically for BMW to facilitate lifetime fill. It's what the transmission was designed around. The fact BMW now specifies change intervals changes nothing. (They don't fwiw in cars requiring this). Rear drive failures had nothing to do with not changing the fluid---they were manufacturing issues.

    GL-5 and 75W-90 are minimum specs and BMW wants more.

    Folks just need to understand that German auto industry engineers and designers never for a nanosecond anticipate DIY maintenance via Pep Boys or WalMart. Yes, it's the "merikun way," but it's irrelevant. The USA is not the leader of the automotive world.
    Magnuson moss. If it has to be a particular lube, BMW has to pay for it.
    My Motorrad
    BMWMOA 162849 | BMWRA 41335 | VROC 8109-R | VBA 19

  10. #40
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake NJ, USA
    Posts
    7,735
    A few points..

    BMW-Motorad US sent a service bulletin to their dealers a number of years ago (around 2008 IIRC..) specifying that a 75W-90 oil be used in the rear drive. They mentioned the BMW branded synthetic. The BMW synthetic is not branded as a GL5.

    The SAF-XO oil - if you research it IS a 75W-90 GL5 synthetic. It is now known (at least in the UK) as "SYNTRAX LONG LIFE 75W-90" http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7068181. SAF-XO is also not branded as a GL5.

    Castrol does offer Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75w‑90 GL5 Gear Oil ‑ 43‑0336 in the US - it isn't branded "Long Life", but it does specify "extended drain intervals intervals" (same thing IMHO.) It's readily available in the US. Thing is - the "limited slip" specification. Castrol does make specific GL5 "limited slip" oils in Europe. The difference between a limited slip and "normal" gear oil is friction modifiers that are in the limited-slip oils. Limited slip differentials rely on clutches to provide the "limited" effect. If the oil doesn't have the friction modifiers the clutches tend to bind, causing snapping noises on tight radius circles.

    What to use for the rear drive? I was using the BMW 75W-90 Super Synthetic. It was around $25/quart. I use the BMW labeled Castrol SAF-XO, which cost about $30/quart. Considering the change interval, and the amount used (a quart will last you a very long time.) Why do I use it? BMW said to and on the grand scheme of things - saving $15 or so by using some other brand - when you consider that the quart might well last the entire life of my bike - it's a big deal.

    For the transmission - I use the BMW 75W-140 Super Synthetic.

    One final point on rear-drives. The most common failure on the big-hole rear drives is the large "crown" bearing that carries the inside end of the big crown (output) gear. Thing is - that bearing IS NOT IN THE OIL. It's a sealed bearing that is external on the drive, with an oil seal BEHIND it that keeps the oil away from it. Changing oil brands will have no effect on that bearing.

    Now - how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Inquiring minds wanna know..

    Oh - one other thing. There is no Moss-Magnuson enforcement agency. If you want to enforce it - you're looking at hiring your own attorney to bring suit against BMW for violating the terms of the MM act. I don't think that would be cost effective to save $15 unless you're an attorney who doesn't value their time as worth much.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  11. #41
    Registered User natrab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Oakley, CA
    Posts
    197
    Don, I agree with you on those points. However, I have found a change in the current RepROM (for camheads and hexhead) from the previous one (hexheads only).

    As I said before, BMW is now specifying the SAF-XO for both the FD and gearbox. I think the reason for this is that they are now specifying the gearbox oil change at 24k mile intervals instead of the previous 12k. I looked up a 2007 R1200R and it does indeed specify every two years or 40,000 km for gearbox oil change. The FD remains at every 12,000 miles or 20,000 km.

    So since this is their new specification, I will be following it and buying BMW's stuff while under warranty for both my FD and gearbox.
    Nate R
    2013 R1200RT 90th - "Tyr" - Purchased 12/13/2013 brand new!
    2007 R1200S - "Sexy Beast"
    2006 R1200RT "Wōden" - 84k - Retired and sold

  12. #42
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Great Pacific NW
    Posts
    19
    Some confirmation of recent posts regarding 75w/90 for both FD and gear box: I stopped by dealer yesterday and noticed on the well stocked shelf of lubricants 75w/90 but no 75/140 and asked parts guy who i've dealt with for several years and i know to be knowledgeable and a straight shooter. He said the current (latest) BMW recommendatioin is for the 75w/90 BMW SAF-XO for both the FD and gearbox. I didn't look at the prices as frankly a few bucks one way or the other is not worth a lot of stress to me for a periodic maintenance I'm saving on by doing myself and i don't mind supporting the dealership a little by at least buying the supplies from them and at the same time following the manufacturer's recommendation.
    '08 F800 ST, '09 R1200 RT

  13. #43
    Registered User wyman.winn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Solvang, CA
    Posts
    166
    another confirmation...

    BMW Motorcycles says Mother BMW recommends BMW SAF-XO for the FD and gearbox....$22.15/liter and BMW Semi-Syn HP Engine Oil SAE15W50 for the motor....$10.97/qt....

    just purchased the 24,000 mile "kit"....oil, filter, crush washers for crankcase, gearbox, o-ring and seal for FD, spark plugs, generator/alternator belt....total including tax was $216.57....

    24k mile in less than an year....!!!!

    wyman
    2013 R1200RT - Sassy - Fluid Grey Metallic
    2002 V-Strom DL1000 - sold
    2008 KLR650 - sold

  14. #44
    Still plays with trains. tinytrains's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Torrance CA
    Posts
    502
    I wish BMW would put their recommendations on the web for all to follow, along with an explanation. Did they change the transmission oil because engineering thought it was g good idea, or distribution wanted to reduce the types of oil they sell and engineering said "yeah, 70w90 will work".
    1988 K75 Low Seat
    2009 R1200R Roadster

  15. #45
    Registered User Hodadd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Central Coast, CA
    Posts
    39
    Quote Originally Posted by deilenberger View Post
    A few points..

    BMW-Motorad US sent a service bulletin to their dealers a number of years ago (around 2008 IIRC..) specifying that a 75W-90 oil be used in the rear drive. They mentioned the BMW branded synthetic. The BMW synthetic is not branded as a GL5.

    The SAF-XO oil - if you research it IS a 75W-90 GL5 synthetic. It is now known (at least in the UK) as "SYNTRAX LONG LIFE 75W-90" http://www.castrol.com/castrol/gener...tentId=7068181. SAF-XO is also not branded as a GL5.

    Castrol does offer Castrol Syntrax Limited Slip 75w‑90 GL5 Gear Oil ‑ 43‑0336 in the US - it isn't branded "Long Life", but it does specify "extended drain intervals intervals" (same thing IMHO.) It's readily available in the US. Thing is - the "limited slip" specification. Castrol does make specific GL5 "limited slip" oils in Europe. The difference between a limited slip and "normal" gear oil is friction modifiers that are in the limited-slip oils. Limited slip differentials rely on clutches to provide the "limited" effect. If the oil doesn't have the friction modifiers the clutches tend to bind, causing snapping noises on tight radius circles.

    What to use for the rear drive? I was using the BMW 75W-90 Super Synthetic. It was around $25/quart. I use the BMW labeled Castrol SAF-XO, which cost about $30/quart. Considering the change interval, and the amount used (a quart will last you a very long time.) Why do I use it? BMW said to and on the grand scheme of things - saving $15 or so by using some other brand - when you consider that the quart might well last the entire life of my bike - it's a big deal.

    For the transmission - I use the BMW 75W-140 Super Synthetic.

    One final point on rear-drives. The most common failure on the big-hole rear drives is the large "crown" bearing that carries the inside end of the big crown (output) gear. Thing is - that bearing IS NOT IN THE OIL. It's a sealed bearing that is external on the drive, with an oil seal BEHIND it that keeps the oil away from it. Changing oil brands will have no effect on that bearing.

    Now - how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Inquiring minds wanna know..

    Oh - one other thing. There is no Moss-Magnuson enforcement agency. If you want to enforce it - you're looking at hiring your own attorney to bring suit against BMW for violating the terms of the MM act. I don't think that would be cost effective to save $15 unless you're an attorney who doesn't value their time as worth much.

    According to a web search Castrol Syntrax is available at Auto Zone for $10/32 oz bottle. FWIW

    And, you're right about enforcement of the MM act. I used to own a Kia Sorrento and when it came time to service the transmission I discovered that you could only use Kia transmission fluid. It is specially formulated and nothing else works. A clear and obvious violation of federal law, but nonetheless that's the way it is.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •