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Thread: Oil Filter Wrench

  1. #16
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    74.5 actually
    The "D" measurement must be the diameter of the can then.

    As for the "stuck filter syndrome" that I read elsewhere in this thread, they do not have to be overtightened to be "stuck".

    I torque my filters and the one time it was stuck on was because I used oil on the seal. My filters sit for a year on my overseas BMW. Since then, I apply a thin smear of Dow Corning Vacuum Grease to the seal...and problem solved.

  2. #17
    Nickname: Droid
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    So the Purlator PL25230 has the exact same drain back valve, exact same pressure drop rating, as the stock filter for the Oilhead?

    I had tried to find that data years ago and never was able to confirm it. So I always stuck to using the Purolater PL10241.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    So the Purlator PL25230 has the exact same drain back valve, exact same pressure drop rating, as the stock filter for the Oilhead?

    I had tried to find that data years ago and never was able to confirm it. So I always stuck to using the Purolater PL10241.
    No it does not.
    I want to stress this, it is not strictly in spec for the boxer, as in it differs from OEM in these measurements.
    I can gather my research leading me to choose that filter if you like, but I do remember that the numbers do not match.

    However I have since decided that the synthetic 99.9% efficient whatever-micron filter is complete overkill for this engine, anyway.
    (At the risk of starting a different argument.)

    The stock or oem Mann filter should NOT have an anti-drainback valve as it is made to stay inverted while in service; not on its side or pointed up as it might be in a car. I don't have one handy to look at.

    The other thing about the Mann filters is - no paint. They can live happily in the hot oil bath of a flying brick.

    The PL10241 is closer to spec.
    Purolator also actually makes a "motorcycle, full flow" filter which is very similar to OEM.

  4. #19
    aapasquale
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    filter

    I use a K+N filter on my R1100RS. It has a nut welded to the bottom which makes it a cinch to remove using my 1/2 inch ratchet.

  5. #20
    Left Coast Rider
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    I use the stock oil filter available from my BMW dealer. I feel so alone and unvalidated.


  6. #21
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    I typically use the $7 Bosch available from my auto parts store. And the remaining $13 to pay for half of the Mobil1 15w50 to run through it.
    2000 R1100RT / 1987 K75C (RIP) / Santa Clarita, CA

  7. #22
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    For entertainment purposes...

    As usual this will be more than anyone needs to know. You have been warned.
    turn back now

    OEM = Mahle OC91 (and others)
    Can't find specs on this, other than outer dimensions.


    Purolator powersports Application Guide says:
    R1100RT => ML16825

    Purolator ML16825 (bare steel)
    =============================================
    Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes
    Height 3.1
    O.D. 3.08
    Relief Valve P.S.I. 14
    Threads 3/4-16

    Fram PH6063 (bare steel, black, orange, chrome...)
    =============================================
    Anti-Drain Valve NO
    Gasket I.D. 2.47"
    Gasket O.D. 2.88"
    Gasket Thickness .13"
    Gasket Usage Base
    Product Height 3.19"
    Product I.D. 3/4-16 Th'd
    Product O.D. 3.08"
    Relief Valve Setting PSI 9-11

    PureONE PL25230 (grippy yellow paint and a sticker)
    "99.9% efficient at 20 microns"
    =============================================
    Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes
    Height 4.74
    O.D. 2.98
    Relief Valve P.S.I. 12-15
    Thread Pitch UNF-2B
    Threads 3/4-16
    Nominal Application: 1998 - 2000 Ford Contour 2.0L Zetec

    Purolator L25230 (white)
    "97.5% efficient at 20 microns"
    =============================================
    Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes
    Height 4.74
    O.D. 2.98
    Relief Valve P.S.I. 12-15
    Thread Pitch UNF-2B
    Threads 3/4-16
    Nominal Application: 2005 Jeep Liberty 2.8L TURBO DIESEL

    Ok. First, I defy anyone to find an ML16825, and you shouldn't anyway because it is pretty much identical to the much cheaper Fram that you can find at WalMart.

    I "believe" that the OEM Mann, Mahle, Wix, etc. may be higher quality construction than the low-end Fram but they don't really filter any better.

    Fram has higher-end filters that are the same PH6063 size but have better filtering media, grippy paint, etc. Just read the cartons or visit the web site. A couple of them do well in the filtering tests.

    You can also cross reference (see "Nominal Application") to fancy filters that are similar to the PureONE, offered by Fram, Bosch, STP, Mobil1. The PL25230 is the tallest one I have found.

    Note that there are no efficiency ratings for the cheap and/or full flow filters because the only test I have heard of is for 20 micron (0.020mm) particles. ...if your filter lets 20 micron particles through then it ain't gonna be very efficient. To me this means that if they don't boast on the web site or package about some efficiency rating (at 20 microns) then we have to assume it doesn't stop particles that small at all. But, they might be pretty efficient at 50 microns, we just don't know.

    Is this a problem?

    R1100 main bearing radial clearance = 0.018mm - 0.068mm with a wear limit of 0.13mm
    So let's be practical and assume we have 50 microns average clearance in the most harshly hammered place in the motor.

    The real, truthful answer is NO, it isn't really a problem, and as the bearings wear it becomes less of a problem... right?
    The truth is there's a lot of room in there and that's why we need 50 weight oil.

    Now, what do I like about the PureONE PL25230?
    • 99.9% efficient at 20 microns, meaning, in ONE PASS it removes 99.9% of particles larger than 20 microns.
    • It is bigger than OEM. More filtering media means it can collect more dirt.
    • It is taller than OEM, hangs down out of its cave where I can grab it.
    • Has grippy paint.
    • Is somewhat less expensive than OEM.


    What do I NOT like about it?
    • Hard to find. Pep Boys and Advance Auto Parts


    Fear, uncertainty, doubt?
    • Isn't it more restrictive, won't the pressure across the media be higher, does it have a relief valve, will it open at a low enough pressure that boxer will always have oil?,?,?,?
      - Ok, what if it is somewhat more restrictive when the oil is cold? As you can see in the specs, the relief valve opens at a LOWER pressure than OEM.
      Purolator does not expect the pressure across the media to exceed 12 PSI.
      I believe the OC91's relief valve is 20 PSI, although I can't seem to find that anywhere.
    • Is having an anti-drainback valve a problem?
      - No, many of the OEM equivalent filters just happen to have one.


    Do you need a full-flow filter? Yeah, if you have an old V-twin that doesn't even make enough pressure at idle to keep the 3 PSI oil pressure warning light turned off.

    At idle the R1100 produces 50 PSI oil pressure according to this service manual I'm reading.

  8. #23
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    The oilhead filter does not run inverted.

    Just so it's known, filters sold in the USA labeled Bosch are not Bosch made and are not the same as those sold in Europe. They're really of no better quality than any other private label filter marketed in the USA.

    The OEM for oilhead filters is Mahle/Knecht.

    engine_oilfilter_oc91_sm.jpg
    Last edited by lkchris; 07-17-2013 at 03:48 AM.
    Kent Christensen
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    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  9. #24
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    Purolater PL20252 is also a same mount but longer filter housing like the PL25230. But I have no internal specifics on the filter to feel good about using it as an alternative to the PL10241.

  10. #25
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    If you are going to use acronyms, best to know there is a difference between OE and OEM and what that really means.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him."

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    Purolater PL20252 is also a same mount but longer filter housing like the PL25230. But I have no internal specifics on the filter to feel good about using it as an alternative to the PL10241.
    This is straight off of http://www.pureoil.com

    PL20252
    Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes
    Height 4.74
    O.D. 2.98
    Relief Valve P.S.I. 25-35
    Thread Pitch UNF-2B
    Threads 3/4-16
    Type of Filter Spin-on

    Higher relief valve pressure than PL25230, otherwise identical.
    Problem? I don't know, I doubt it.

    PL10241
    Anti-Drain Back Valve Yes
    Height 3.36
    O.D. 2.98
    Relief Valve P.S.I. 12-15
    Thread Pitch UNF-2B
    Threads 3/4-16
    Type of Filter Spin-on

  12. #27
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    Gee this is entertaining...

    I used to run a filter test lab and can't get too excited by anyone who uses a well made substitute though mine are always OE equivalents- can't see any good reason to second guess the engine guys for a few pennies. Bypasses, overpressure protections and whatever aren't a filters most important characteristics- flow, build quality and dirt holding capacity/efficiency are and are the guts of all filter design and QC testing..

    FWIW, the most common test rigs in design facilities focus on multi-pass testing which is what happens in a motor. By far the largest number and mass of particles in common dirts are well under 20 microns. And 50 micron stuff is boulders to filter guys. Sizes quantitated in the lab are on the order of human cells (5-10 microns) and smaller and many of the tools in fact derive from what was originally med lab or space science technology. Oil filters operate by principles of depth filtration on which more than a few texts are written- NOT on membrane filtration principles so they all pass some amount of even large particles..

    Heck, I use the dinky BMW one of my K1200GT, by far the smallest filter on anything I've ever owned. Even without any lab data on it I can tell you that if you somehow manage to plug it you've got worse problems than a plugged filter and better be on good terms with your engine builder.

    My first thought about a longer replacement on an RT is to remind users to add a fender extender and be extra careful of hitting road objects so the filter doesn't get hit and punctured. Its not the engine that's at risk- its your butt from oil on the rear tire. But still by far not the highest probability way to get hurt. GS guys with decent shields need not worry...

  13. #28
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    Yeah, all that research...

    Thinking yeah, I'll use the best full synthetic oil available, and I'll put the best 20 micron filter on there; this thing will last forever.

    Then I change both once a year. Which is 3000-4000 miles for me lately.


    Just a big waste of time really. That motor couldn't care less.

  14. #29
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    Hmmm... Spend $22,000 on your ride then pat yourself on the back for saving what, $15 once or twice a year by buying oil and a filter that you hope is just as good as what BMW recommends?!

    We certainly are a strange bunch!

  15. #30
    BMW Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicVW View Post
    Hmmm... Spend $22,000 on your ride then pat yourself on the back for saving what, $15 once or twice a year by buying oil and a filter that you hope is just as good as what BMW recommends?!

    We certainly are a strange bunch!
    True. Anyone out there care to guess what the projected lifetime savings comes to with an aftermarket oil filter as opposed to an OEM oil filter? I'm a fanatic on oil changes as I do it every 2.5k. I know... waste of money but I feel good. I never write anything down as far as maintenance records for my personal vehicles. When I look at the odometer the 2.5k is just easier to remember so that passes the test for me. Now if I ride the bike 250,000 miles that means 100 oil & filter changes. If I save $10 per filter that works out to a $1,000 savings for every 250,000 miles I ride. I ride approximately 15k to 20k per year but that can be on multiple motorcycles. But if I rode 20k on just one bike it would take 12 1/2 years to reach that mileage. That means I would save $80 per year on oil filters.

    I don't know about most on the forum but I'm not smart enough to be an oil engineer/scientist and I really don't know much more about oil filters if anything. I'll just have to take that $80 out of the budget for something else. I truly hope that $80 difference isn't altering anyone's lifestyle out there. At my age I'll likely be 6 foot under in 12 1/2 years anyway which means I'll pretty much give it zero thought for the rest of my life. Please note a cager taking me out prior to that will alter the total expenditure.

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