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Thread: Why am I getting only 25mpg?

  1. #151
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rxcrider View Post
    A - go ride and be happy

    B - send the fuel injectors out to be cleaned and make sure they match

    C - while the injectors are out, do you trust the valve lash adjustment done by the dealer? I'd at at least verify it and make sure everything was tightened properly.

    D- once you have known good injectors - how much do you trust the throttle synch done by the dealer.

    How much time and money is the extra 5 MPG worth? If it seems to run well, I probably wouldn't work to hard at it right now, maybe over the winter. Right now, I'd be doing A followed by C, then a bunch more of A.
    It's not the cost of the fuel that bothers me. Since I've never owned/riden a Beemer/Boxer before I have no reference point as to how this bike should ride. Fuel mileage is like a heart rate or blood pressure...it's a good indicator of the health of the bike.
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  2. #152
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    I can get 40, just by enjoying the acceleration, and using 10% alcohol fuel, You are in the range of normal.

    Rod

  3. #153
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Without knowing exactly how you ride, your mileage seems fine for the year and model. Here's a guy who keeps pretty close track of his R1100RT and for mileage between 38 and 49:



    Most likely your sensor is operating, but if you want to know if it's working properly you could get someone with an oscilloscope to watch the waveform shape. Because of the testing I've been doing on the 1150 I have a second bung welded into my exhaust and have an adapter for the R1100 sensor. If you mailed it to me I'd be happy to test it.

    The other rough test you could make is to get the bike warmed up and attach an analog voltmeter to the black (+) and gray (-) . Once a second the needle should swing from about 900mV to 100mV and vice versa. That will tell you that the sensor and Closed Loop are functioning.

    If you want to know about the engine's health you could test compression, and listen and feel it while you ride. It will talk to you.

  4. #154
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    Notice that all of those high mileage entries are in locations that are high up in altitude. On an FI bike you'll always get better mileage, because the computer can sense the lower barometric pressure (thinner air) and will reduce the gas delivered in order to keep near ideal fuel to air ratios. Otherwise, your bike would run too rich. Carburetted bikes that are tuned for sea level have a hard time high up in the mountains for this reason.

    I have an R1100RS with over 200k miles on it. I typically get around 39-42 mpg near sea level, depending on just how much fun I've been having.
    --Darryl Richman, forum liaison
    http://darryl.crafty-fox.com

  5. #155
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Roger 04 RT;893719]Here's a guy who keeps pretty close track of his R1100RT and for mileage between 38 and 49:




    Wow, I want to ride with that guy! Good points all.

    Has anyone dabbled in remapping or chipping the R1100R?
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  6. #156
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darrylri View Post
    I have an R1100RS with over 200k miles on it. I typically get around 39-42 mpg near sea level, depending on just how much fun I've been having.
    How has your bike fared over 200k? What was the most expensive and/or complicated repair you've had to do to the bike over these miles?
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  7. #157
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    Here's a guy who keeps pretty close track of his R1100RT and for mileage between 38 and 49:

    I doubt his AFR is that steady being right in the middle of working with an Electromotive Tech/GT system on a local owner's Porsche.

    As for fuel consumption calculations, they are best done from a full tank (that is a given) to a nearly empty tank. Filling the gas tank with a mere 2 gallons for example, it is easy to add an extra 0.2 of a gallon while topping up (the inconsistent part) and that alone just threw your numbers off quite a bit.

  8. #158
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    ...

    Has anyone dabbled in remapping or chipping the R1100R?
    Are you really thinking of gutting your Motronic? if you are look at BBPowerChip and Rhinewest have chips. Here's why I'm highly skeptical of their claims:

    1) They don't give a description of of how they modify the chips or what they do.

    2) Unless they disable Closed Loop operation (which you can do on your own) most of the fueling is locked to the O2 sensor so even if you change the chip you end up with the same fueling in most of the map.

    3) The Motronics all do a good job richening the mixture during acceleration and above 50% throttle.

    4) There is an argument that spark advance could be made less conservative, to the extent it is. As a counter to that, BMW and Bosch have included a very sophisticated spark advance and dwell map.

    5) You can richen the mixture by shifting the Lambda point of the O2 sensor and improve the performance without tearing into the Motronic.

    But back to your question: Rhinewest and BBPowerchip.

  9. #159
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    Are you really thinking of gutting your Motronic? if you are look at BBPowerChip and Rhinewest have chips. Here's why I'm highly skeptical of their claims:

    1) They don't give a description of of how they modify the chips or what they do.

    2) Unless they disable Closed Loop operation (which you can do on your own) most of the fueling is locked to the O2 sensor so even if you change the chip you end up with the same fueling in most of the map.

    3) The Motronics all do a good job richening the mixture during acceleration and above 50% throttle.

    4) There is an argument that spark advance could be made less conservative, to the extent it is. As a counter to that, BMW and Bosch have included a very sophisticated spark advance and dwell map.

    5) You can richen the mixture by shifting the Lambda point of the O2 sensor and improve the performance without tearing into the Motronic.

    But back to your question: Rhinewest and BBPowerchip.
    Again, I'm a novice on these matters. I've read numerous posts that claim that the factory mapping restricts a lot of the bikes potential performance, thought maybe of investing in that device that lets one download tweaked mapping from the web and install it on the Motronic while backing up the factory program. Bad idea?
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  10. #160
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    Here's why I'm highly skeptical of their claims:

    They don't give a description of how they modify the chips or what they do.
    The one thing chip makers are very good at are making claims and then refusing to provide before and after power and torque curves for a bone stock motor, when asked for them.

    I asked GIAC via e-mail once and I never got so much as a peep back. They make chips for cars. I'm not interested in changing anything, but not being the average lemming, I did want proof of their claims.

  11. #161
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    I've read numerous posts that claim that the factory mapping restricts a lot of the bikes potential performance.
    Numerous posts by people on forums going by the seat of their pants measurements, no doubt.


    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    Thought maybe of investing in that device that lets one download tweaked mapping from the web and install it on the Motronic while backing up the factory program. Bad idea?
    Who are those "tweaked maps from the web" created by.

    My friend with no experience in the matter and who has a Porsche 911 is having one hell of a time setting up his mapping. Ideally, that process is best done on a dyno if you are looking for the upteenth iota of performance. If you are not, why bother with the system in the first place. My R1150 GS Adventure is running fine using the factory Motronic. And if you've seen my numbers, I get very good gas mileage for the conditions.

  12. #162
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    Again, I'm a novice on these matters. I've read numerous posts that claim that the factory mapping restricts a lot of the bikes potential performance, thought maybe of investing in that device that lets one download tweaked mapping from the web and install it on the Motronic while backing up the factory program. Bad idea?
    It might be fun to try but I wouldn't hope for much. As I mentioned above, the mixture "cop" riding with you is the O2 sensor. If you don't remove or change that you're stuck with fueling that keeps your catalytic converter happy, 1 lb. of fuel for every 14.7 lbs. of air. That's a lean mixture that is about 10% below the mixture that produces the best power, roughly 1 lb. of fuel for every 13.2 lbs. of air. Your Motronic is always trying to run its Closed Loop program which compares the fuel it sends in to the output of the O2 sensor.

    One exception is during rapid throttle movement and acceleration. We have measured 1100s, 1150s and 1200s and found that at those times the Motronic sends out injection signals that results in a good rich mixture, between 12.0 and 13.5:1, and it ignores the O2 sensor during those times.

    So if you replace or augment the stock O2 sensor with a "cop" that signal something richer than 14.7:1, for example 13.8:1, you overcome the inherent leanness of a stock bike. The three devices that do that are BMW-AF-XIED, lc-1 and PC III USB w/Wideband.

    There are other things you can do too, disconnect the O2 then add fuel with a booster plug or techlusion.

    Lastly, on the R1100 you can change the Coding Plug from Pink to Beige and that gets the Motronic to ignore the O2 sensor although that alone doesn't necessarily richen the mixture.

  13. #163
    Cannonball Rider #52 darrylri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    How has your bike fared over 200k? What was the most expensive and/or complicated repair you've had to do to the bike over these miles?
    I am pleased with my bike, but it has not all been a bed of roses. First, my bike is a 1993 "beta bike" (#168 off the line). BMW made a number of changes to the bikes as they produced and learned about how they were functioning in the real world.

    It came with the 1st year "noisy in neutral" transmission (which, btw, was perfectly reliable for the 40k miles I put on it). I was offered, and took advantage of, the "silent recall" BMW had on the 1st year trannies, but the 2nd generation trannies had real problems. Mine would pop out of 1st under power hard enough to go right on into 2nd. So I got another free transmission, which was solid for 110k miles (about 160k miles total). At that point, it started slipping briefly in 2nd gear under power, and so I bought a refurb transmission, which now has over 60k miles on it.

    The engine was always good and only gave me surging symptoms when the TBs were out of sync, usually shortly before a scheduled service, if at all. As I mentioned, it has always delivered high 30s to low 40s gas mileage. The bike has never been babied and I have been to a number of track classes with it. At about 150k miles, the front U joint on the driveshaft blew up.

    In 2002, with a bit over 160k on the odo, I shipped the bike to Germany, where I keep it today at a friend's place. At 182k miles, while I was cruising down the Autobahn at about 110mph/6,000rpm, one of the pistons broke a skirt, cocked in the bore and in the process destroyed both conrods. Everything underneath the heads was pretty much trashed, but I was able to buy and have installed a 1997 R1100RT engine with 30k kms (~18k miles) on it for about $2500.

    So, that engine now has almost 60k miles on it. It runs fine and smooth. And it gets high 30s to low 40s mpg.
    --Darryl Richman, forum liaison
    http://darryl.crafty-fox.com

  14. #164
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlobalRider View Post
    Who are those "tweaked maps from the web" created by.
    Good point to which I have no idea...just assumed the maps were by BMW professionals.
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  15. #165
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    Lastly, on the R1100 you can change the Coding Plug from Pink to Beige and that gets the Motronic to ignore the O2 sensor although that alone doesn't necessarily richen the mixture.
    Is there a coding plug that improves performance without bypassing the 02 sensor?
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

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