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Thread: Why am I getting only 25mpg?

  1. #31
    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    That tech is SO far off it's sad. The Oilheads of that vintage should easily get 40mpg and better. Until I messed with the TPS setting on my RS I never got worse than 40 mpg no matter how hard I rode it. I'd check the O2 sensor, and the TPS voltage setting. If your bike is running that rich though, I'd expect you'd see lots of black soot around the muffler outlet. Mine did that when I had messed with the TPS setting, oh my fuel mileage also dropped to the mid-30's.

    Plug color is a reasonble indication. Light medium tan color on the white ceramic portion.
    Woodenshoe to Cheesehead

  2. #32
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Brakes make HEAT, if they were dragging the rotors would be hot enough to sizzle if you spit on them after coasting to a stop.
    2010 F800GS Full Ohlins package, '04 R1100S Replika
    '01 F650GS Wife's bike
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    Tuscany and Central Italy 2010

  3. #33
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselyoda View Post
    Always go for the basics. Any complaint about fuel economy starts with tire pressures, alignment, rolling resistance and the list of basics can keep you occupied with substantial time before you worry about coding plugs and sensors. My brother drove sixty miles with the park brake engaged on my truck. His first complaint was fuel economy and my comment was he deserved to pay for it because he didn't notice it.
    Lastly, mechanics/technicians always are the first ones to be blamed when a new, unforeseen problem pops up by sheer coincidence. I built an engine for a track hoe and within twenty minutes of going to work, the main hydraulic hose popped. The customer was absolutely convinced it was because of my engine.
    Tires new, pressure correct, wheels true and balanced. I'm not convinced of the tight calipers...just their guess for now. I mentioned the O2 sensors and the mechanic said he'll test.

    I just know that if any of this had to do with their work it will get buried and I'll end up paying for their mistakes of oversights. I wish I could do this work myself but I live in an apartment and the bike lives in the parking lot covered, I can't do any work that can't be finished in an hour or two.

    I know it's 50/50 that this might be related to their work...fact is they talked me into replacing the complete front brake master cylinder because the old one was leaking and they said it could not be rebuilt. I paid for that and for them to flush/bleed the brake fluids, I paid for the brakes to be inspected and adjusted among many other things.

    I paid the almost $1000 to inspect, tune, adjust, and replace everything possible on the bike so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that it would run better than when it went in.
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  4. #34
    Registered User bluehole's Avatar
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    Sidebar: This is an HD-BMW dealership? I suppose they are out there. Never seen that combination around here. Interesting.
    2000 R1100RS
    1972 R75/5

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    ...fact is they talked me into replacing the complete front brake master cylinder because the old one was leaking and they said it could not be rebuilt.
    Could not be rebuilt? Did they say why? There is, after all, a piston rebuild kit in the parts fiche, so "unrebuildable" would seem to imply fatal damage to the cylinder housing itself. Seems like a red flag.
    2000 R1100RT / 1987 K75C (RIP) / Santa Clarita, CA

  6. #36
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesInCA View Post
    Could not be rebuilt? Did they say why? There is, after all, a piston rebuild kit in the parts fiche, so "unrebuildable" would seem to imply fatal damage to the cylinder housing itself. Seems like a red flag.
    First they said just needed to replace cover and gasket, then that didn't work and they said they needed to rebuild the master cylinder, then they said there was too much pitting and it needed to be replaced. I asked them to at least let me supply the part and I got one from Beemerboneyard. I saved on the part but they still charged me for the rebuild kit.
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  7. #37
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Just to comment, new parts out the box do fail. Don't think that just because they are a BMW shop that the technicians don't make honest mistakes, just like the pilot, Sum Tin Wong on that 777 in SF.

    The single biggest reason why I'm so interested in this post is because my own 96 R1100RT and my buddy's 98 R1100RS suffered like yours. In my case, it was one phase of my Hall Effect Sensor, the 180 phase went wonky which was picked up when I read the codes. I could also determine I wasn't going into closed loop with a simple timing light.

    My buddy's bike, they had the direction backwards on the tires. They were done by a Beemer approved shop. It took me less than two minutes to find it when I checked his tire pressures that he swears were perfect. But since I'm on my hands and knees once, no point getting up until I have a good look.

    All very simple things, and the primary principle in troubleshooting is still KISS and will remain so forever.

    I got stories and after almost 40 years on the tools, nothing surprises me.

    I really take offense to someone passing judgement on a technician/mechanic unless they have been there, and done that.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "Life isn't about how fast or how high, it's about how well you bounce."

  8. #38
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselyoda View Post
    Just to comment, new parts out the box do fail. Don't think that just because they are a BMW shop that the technicians don't make honest mistakes, just like the pilot, Sum Tin Wong on that 777 in SF.

    The single biggest reason why I'm so interested in this post is because my own 96 R1100RT and my buddy's 98 R1100RS suffered like yours. In my case, it was one phase of my Hall Effect Sensor, the 180 phase went wonky which was picked up when I read the codes. I could also determine I wasn't going into closed loop with a simple timing light.

    My buddy's bike, they had the direction backwards on the tires. They were done by a Beemer approved shop. It took me less than two minutes to find it when I checked his tire pressures that he swears were perfect. But since I'm on my hands and knees once, no point getting up until I have a good look.

    All very simple things, and the primary principle in troubleshooting is still KISS and will remain so forever.

    I got stories and after almost 40 years on the tools, nothing surprises me.

    I really take offense to someone passing judgement on a technician/mechanic unless they have been there, and done that.

    As I mentioned earlier, the tires are fine, he wheels are fine and I'm waiting to hear back from them once they figure out the mpg issue and not starting issue. But their credibility is waning after the first thing the service agent said was "I wouldn't expect more than 25mpg from that model and year". It was getting 35mpg when I brought it to them. And I'm now paying over $100 just for the privilege of them telling me what either they missed of did wrong from the $1000 service.
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  9. #39
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    What I'm saying is you have to keep going back to the beginning of any trouble shooting problem. If the dealership is anything like the ones I worked in, Caterpillar in particular, if the problem is new, you will pay for it but if it's because of some sort of parts/service failure, they have internal warranty. We used to call it "community service".

    The comment about the front caliper hanging up wouldn't surprise me given the scope of the work performed. By the way, I dare anybody to not leave a fingerprint on a rotor after a good ride. Mine stay hot for up to 30 minutes when I come off the highway. I didn't pay healthy coin for Spiegler but did replace them with good quality custom made DOT 4 compatible elastomers.

    If you followed the string and followed all the advice on this string, you would pay enough in parts and labor to buy a new bike. My last really good bottle of Argentinian Merlot didn't impress me that there was enough margins to throw away good cash.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "Life isn't about how fast or how high, it's about how well you bounce."

  10. #40
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineguyd View Post
    As I mentioned earlier, the tires are fine, he wheels are fine and I'm waiting to hear back from them once they figure out the mpg issue and not starting issue. But their credibility is waning after the first thing the service agent said was "I wouldn't expect more than 25mpg from that model and year". It was getting 35mpg when I brought it to them. And I'm now paying over $100 just for the privilege of them telling me what either they missed of did wrong from the $1000 service.
    Not to add to your (seemingly understandable) trust problem but I have frequently taken issue with what a Service Adviser/Agent has told me about my bikes/cars. In my experience, they very often are not mechanics and that fact, in my view, discredits their opinions on technical issues witness the statement that you shouldn't expect better fuel mileage than you're getting. On the other hand, the tech is giving his best opinion on what your issues might be. Give him the opportunity to use his talent to identify the problem. If your issues continue, you might want to have a conversation with the Service Manager.

    But, seeing as I'm here and your bike isn't, anything I can offer is a WAG (Wild Assed Guess). Best o' luck getting this fixed up sooner than later. I can only guarantee one thing - it will likely cost you money.

  11. #41
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselyoda View Post
    Here we go, this will be an awesome thread to follow. With all the "experts" to way in, I can't wait to see how far astray they will take you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dieselyoda View Post
    Always go for the basics. Any complaint about fuel economy starts with tire pressures, alignment, rolling resistance and the list of basics can keep you occupied with substantial time before you worry about coding plugs and sensors.

    ...
    There's good sense in your approach but when a bike that should get 45 miles per gallon gets 25 mpg, you're looking for more than the basics.

    The reason I always ask about coding plugs on R1100s is because that have so often been altered. Likewise about exhaust and add-on fueling like Techlusion.

    To evaluate the basics you have to know what machine you're dealing with. You don't need to put other's ideas down to put forward your own. We all get it right sometimes and wrong others.

  12. #42
    Registered User dieselyoda's Avatar
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    Hmmnnnn, I agree and disagree with Roger. In my world, you start at the simplest, labor/parts cost the lowest to be effective and work on up. Simple stuff usually yields the answer and a direction.

    At one point, I babysat twenty highly skilled technicians/mechanics and the crap they came up with was mind boggling. If they didn't understand a system, it was always at fault. I don't babysit anymore and I never will again. At times I felt like their evil step-mother.

    Some of my guys were awesome smart. They could also outsmart themselves by trusting they did the job right the first time. We are human.

    I could tell a story about the camshaft bolts on a DD60, Series 1, that a very highly, trusted mechanic rebuilt and he did an oops. That one was expensive. I got lots more.

    I guess where I disagree most is that every machine is the same. I will maintain until an angry husband catches me in bed with his wife and shoots me, that all machines need the basics taken care of. It could be even as simple as the track on a D9T put on backwards. You need to look closely.

    Beyond all that, poor fuel economy is the worst to deal with. Maybe low horsepower matches that.

    Now I have a good story. Every Friday about 10 minutes to peeler hour at the local bar, we had an operator complain about fuel economy. When we couldn't find anything, it became a horsepower complaint. We tried hard. We didn't hold back labor/parts costs. Every Friday, there he was. Right on time to walk down the street to watch the naked ladies. I got the idea that we should give him something to complain about. We took a beer bottle, filled it with a couple old ball bearings and hung it inside the door panel on a string. Never got his fuel economy or low horsepower complaint again.

    I'm not saying that poor economy isn't a valid complaint. What I'm trying to say is that the complaint needs to be repeatedly reviewed right at the start of the troubleshooting tree. It has to be repeated every time the machine comes back.

    FYI, use the words "come back" to any technician/mechanic/service adviser, all they here is "my fault". That will push attitudes sideways.
    1997 R1100RT (Restored Basket Case) , 1981 KZ 440 LTD (Restored Basket Case)
    1986 K75S(the beutch), 1993 K1100RS (blown engine), 1997 Chev Short Box (4x4 with an LT1)
    "Life isn't about how fast or how high, it's about how well you bounce."

  13. #43
    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    They replaced the master cylinder cover? If it was damaged I could maybe see that. Sure I can understand the seal and bellows in the master cylinder, but not the cover.

    Given what other parts they have thrown at it, and given the comments like "typical mileage for this bike" and "non-rebuildable master cylinder", I saw you need to spend your money with a service department that knows what the heck they're doing and quit wasting your time and money. At this point I'd even consider an independent repair shop over that shop.
    Woodenshoe to Cheesehead

  14. #44
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    They replaced the master cylinder cover? If it was damaged I could maybe see that. Sure I can understand the seal and bellows in the master cylinder, but not the cover.

    Given what other parts they have thrown at it, and given the comments like "typical mileage for this bike" and "non-rebuildable master cylinder", I saw you need to spend your money with a service department that knows what the heck they're doing and quit wasting your time and money. At this point I'd even consider an independent repair shop over that shop.

    They at first said they thought it was the cover/gasket leaking. They didn't actually replace it, then they said it needs to be rebuild and then said there was too much pitting to rebuild and that I needed to replace the entire unit. I did not pay for a cover, but they did charge me for the rebuild kit and I supplied the new master cylinder( I think they charged me for the rebuild kit BECAUSE I supplied the MC.)

    Unfortunately I don't have a lot of options for a repair shop. Bergen BMW is the closest and is a 30 minute highway drive, Manhattan BMW is next at an hour drive and $14 in tolls. I've been trying to find a generic motorcycle shop but no luck.
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

  15. #45
    WineGuyD wineguyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluehole View Post
    Sidebar: This is an HD-BMW dealership? I suppose they are out there. Never seen that combination around here. Interesting.
    Yes, and HD was the original dealership, they recently added BMW. On a side note, previous to buying my R1100R I had a Vespa GTS250 that I bought from a different HD dealership that picked up Vespa as a sideline.

    YOU HAVEN'T BEEN EMASCULATED TILL YOU PICK UP A RED VESPA AT A HARLEY DEALERSHIP FULL OF HARD CORE BIKERS!!!
    Purveyor of fine wines & spirits
    Rides a 1996 R1100R

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