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Thread: A World First - Usage Based Insurance (Telematics) for Motorcycles

  1. #16
    K'nothead
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalterK75 View Post
    Is the question of where one rides their motorcycle/scooter taken into account? City vs rural? Changes in risk depending on riding environment.
    Not at this moment, but IMO for instance, excessive speed in a congested city is way more of a potential risk than in a wide open rural setting with no other vehicles in sight. With other UBI programs, a certain amount of speeding (as long as it's not extreme) is acceptable before losing your discount points, but AFAIK they don't differentiate on location. Because of Saskatchewan's ample wide open spaces, this is obviously a point I'll keep raising in feedback sessions but it's moot right now.

    Cheers, 36654. Unfortunately, I let the R1100RS go, not just because of SGI's rate treatments, but also because I have just recently had a knee replacement and am no longer as comfortable with sporty riding positions. The rates are not at the exorbitant levels originally proposed, because the gummint stepped in and mandated they be phased in over a longer period. However, unless there are significant changes, they are still headed there in 3-5 years. It doesn`t seem right, but you`re correct that it`s cheaper to insure an M3 than a 20 year old motorcycle such as the R1100RS. No-fault requires that the insurance premiums be tied to the risk (i.e. to the insurance company), not the vehicle. Also bear in mind, that the risk in question is mostly the operator injury potential, not the vehicular damage.

    JP

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by jopars View Post
    The high insurance rates in Saskatchewan and Manitoba reflect the impact of no-fault insurance schemes when motorcycles are not exempted or handled differently. Essentially, no-fault is synonymous with personal injury protection (PIP), where each motorist insures themself for medical and related costs in an accident. Being more vulnerable, motorcyclists should expect higher costs for this type of insurance to cover the additional risk. In most US States where no-fault is in effect, motorcyclists are specifically exempted from this provision, thus "transfer" any associated costs to private medical plans or, if another party is at fault, retain the ability to sue them for damages. Unfortunately, in the approximately 50% of motorcycle accidents where the rider is at fault, this can leave the rider without adequate compensation.
    JP,

    We are no fault in PA and I pay $2100 per year for my cycle, 2 cars (2003 & 2010), a truck (2013), homeowners and personal articles (musical instruments) policies. The cycle and other vehicles are all covered under comprehensive plans. Of course, our registration and license fees are heading north because the politicians didn't have the guts to raise the gas taxes.

    I would interested in seeing how much of your insurance premium is actually DOT or other taxes.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  3. #18
    K'nothead
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    I would interested in seeing how much of your insurance premium is actually DOT or other taxes.
    According to the open, public books, absolutely none*. As I mentioned, our benefits may be more generous, particularly in the area of PIP. For instance, our personal injury package includes wage maintenance to 90% of previous wage, and fully 55% of the payouts in the motorcycle insurance category is wage maintenance. I find this particularly grating because I'm retired and have no wage that needs to be maintained in the event of an injury, so can't even use this particular benefit. However, I've been assured that all PIP plans contain some mandatory level of wage maintenance premiums, although other jurisdictions I have canvassed are in the 60-70% range.

    Can you please definitively confirm that your m/c insurance has the same benefits as your other vehicles? Does your injury coverage on the bike include the same full benefits, including wage maintenance, and at what levels? Most no-fault States have exempted m/cs from the full provisions, but my research thus far has not included PA, and a clarification would be appreciated.

    Another possible factor is that private insurance companies can give substantial discounts for bundled insurance on multiple vehicles, particularly for their low-claims customers. This is a particular aspect for which I still have not received satisfactory responses from SGI yet. My research continues.

    JP

    *In Sask, every policy includes a portion for registration and licensing. This is not technically part of the insurance although I have been including it in my quotes of the prices. This portion is typically less than $100. Sorry, if that was a little misleading.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jopars View Post
    According to the open, public books, absolutely none*. As I mentioned, our benefits may be more generous, particularly in the area of PIP. For instance, our personal injury package includes wage maintenance to 90% of previous wage, and fully 55% of the payouts in the motorcycle insurance category is wage maintenance. I find this particularly grating because I'm retired and have no wage that needs to be maintained in the event of an injury, so can't even use this particular benefit. However, I've been assured that all PIP plans contain some mandatory level of wage maintenance premiums, although other jurisdictions I have canvassed are in the 60-70% range.
    JP,

    That is a major difference. My liability insurance covers the other guy's losses, but my PIP cost's $10 per year and likely amounts to $5000 in lost income and $5000 in medical expenses. From that perspective, the long term financial risk associated with motorcycling in SASK is covered by your vehicle insurance policy. In PA (and most likely all of the USA) that risk is covered by our health insurance and, eventually, Social Security for the disabled. When viewed from that perspective, the SASK approach has merit and readily demonstrates the need for safety training and the use of safety equipment to limit injuries and costs.

    Of course, that is just my opinion.

    BTW - In some US states you can waive PIP coverage if you are retired, because, as you noted......you have no income to loose.
    Last edited by 36654; 07-14-2013 at 12:50 PM.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  5. #20
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    Cheers for that, 36654.

    JP

  6. #21
    K'nothead
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    If anyone is still interested after all the above, and has about 48 minutes of their riding season to give up, here's the link to a presentation given by the equipment supplier to a motorcycle focus group. Other links on the page direct to FAQs, etc.

    http://www.sgipilot.ca/learn-about-telematics/

    JP

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    If I understand Massachusetts insurance, PIP stops protecting you once you throw a leg over your bike, you can be standing next to it and they will pay you the state limit of $8,000. You have to buy medical payments coverage (MPC) to get any coverage, and my supplier limited me to $25,000 (see how far that goes), and I'm paying almost the same for MPC as the rest of my insurance coverage. To get your wages covered for income we would have to buy personal disability insurance. If we include all the coverage jopars has - I wonder how much our insurance would cost?

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jopars View Post
    If anyone is still interested after all the above, and has about 48 minutes of their riding season to give up, here's the link to a presentation given by the equipment supplier to a motorcycle focus group. Other links on the page direct to FAQs, etc.

    http://www.sgipilot.ca/learn-about-telematics/

    JP
    Unless I missed it..........there was no mention of safety equipment which should be a significant factor in PIP costs. The telematics focused solely on driving habits which is fine if safety equipment is standardized as in a care. However, in the case of a motorcycle, safety equipment and it's quality is pretty optional.

    And, yes, it is a GPS tracking device that maintains a record of your travels. That will be an interesting pill for many folks in the US to swallow, but according to corporate statistics, these systems are quite common in the US. I assume the CEO was referring to fleet operations and Progressive's Snapshot device.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-foiler View Post
    If I understand Massachusetts insurance, PIP stops protecting you once you throw a leg over your bike, you can be standing next to it and they will pay you the state limit of $8,000. You have to buy medical payments coverage (MPC) to get any coverage, and my supplier limited me to $25,000 (see how far that goes), and I'm paying almost the same for MPC as the rest of my insurance coverage. To get your wages covered for income we would have to buy personal disability insurance. If we include all the coverage jopars has - I wonder how much our insurance would cost?
    More is the easy answer. However, if the activity is high risk, isn't it more logical to place the insurance cost with the activity instead of assuming that SS disability will carry the burden?
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  10. #25
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    In KY a "PIP" wage benefit would work in my favor as I suspect(actually I'm wondering what is the case with "non workers" as a they seem to be able to collect on my insurance when they cause the accident!) that many of the uninsured also have no job & it would be difficult to pay someone 90% of zero? -thus my rates would go down?
    As to no-fault in KY, there is a state form permitting one to decline that coverage.It's been around for as long as no fault on policies but I just found out about it a few yrs back. I suspect that very few do decline it or have even heard of the possibility to do so and furthermore many would either not know what it is or the possible result based on reading comprehension levels/level of effort/interest of many policy holders.
    Thinking of the variances of human nature I wonder how many "worry warts" buy insurance they don't need? In the same line of thought, how many policy features cater to that sort of person instead of practical ,i.e., actuarial based features?
    In the last few days news they (national surveys) have said that in respect to insuring people with our "new" national health care(name unspoken here-ha!) there are many persons that already have "free coverage", yet don't even bother to sign up for it! Throw that into the idea of you & me paying for the other persons medical coverage in an accident via a vehicle insurance policy. It seems we are paying for those that don't care enough to sign up...
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    In the last few days news they (national surveys) have said that in respect to insuring people with our "new" national health care(name unspoken here-ha!) there are many persons that already have "free coverage", yet don't even bother to sign up for it! Throw that into the idea of you & me paying for the other persons medical coverage in an accident via a vehicle insurance policy. It seems we are paying for those that don't care enough to sign up...
    When not signing up saves the state money on that "free coverage" it behooves the state to not inform those eligible of the benefit. Those programs are funded thru the states via block grants. Interestingly, the same states that choose to not inform are also the ones that are fastest to sign people up for SS disability, a federally funded program.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

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    Everyone in US has to buy federally mandated health insurance on Jan first, 2014, unless exempted willy nilly, or somehow you have a private insurer not yet absorbed. As far as I know, which changes minute by minute. Once it kicks in, then we'll find out what the gov bean counters think of our risky activities. AFAIK, after Jan first a federal agency could merely make whatever judgement it wishes in the interest of the welfare of the people. Reality will kick at that point. this beyond interesting. The whole insurance industry appears to be on the table looking to SGI.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ninety8 View Post
    Everyone in US has to buy federally mandated health insurance on Jan first, 2014, unless exempted willy nilly, or somehow you have a private insurer not yet absorbed. As far as I know, which changes minute by minute. Once it kicks in, then we'll find out what the gov bean counters think of our risky activities. AFAIK, after Jan first a federal agency could merely make whatever judgement it wishes in the interest of the welfare of the people. Reality will kick at that point. this beyond interesting. The whole insurance industry appears to be on the table looking to SGI.
    You should watch the 48-minute presentation provided by JP. The corporation references the number of similar systems in-use around the world. Guess what, the US is the land where these systems are most frequently used. If I was a fleet operator, you can bet that I would have these systems on board of every vehicle. Your insurance company is just making the same decision about the prices they charge you.

    And, just google BioMetric testing.........it's been here for a while. It's how your employer (if self-insured) or insurance company assessed their pooled risk exposure. It's not some outside evil power that's doing this........it's the free market determining a "market" price for your risk. If you don't want the test or the on-board device, they'll have a special price, you'll just love.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  14. #29
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    At this point I can still negotiate with my insurer exactly what I wish to insure. For instance, I no longer need income insurance on my vehicle policies.

    The Manitoban pays what he is told he has to pay. He couldn't believe that I could shop around and taylor my insurance to my individual requirements. For instance, an old airhead may not be worth the premiums over a few years to carry comprehensive. Control versus freedom of action.

    Concerning riding in the northern climes and in general the miles ridden per year, and the actual number of titled bikes, AFAIK there isn't much of a problem with insuring motorcycles or their riders' health insurance. I'd love to see the actuary numbers as compared to say obesity. In my state thus far 26 motorcycle fatalities, some of which because of animals, others bad driving or lack of ATGATT and others just bad luck/timing.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by 8ninety8 View Post
    Control versus freedom of action.
    Since the hospital can't deny you care and the Dr. can't stop treating you when the money runs out..........your freedom of action is pretty much something you'll never be responsible for.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

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