Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 70

Thread: A World First - Usage Based Insurance (Telematics) for Motorcycles

  1. #31
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    B.P., MN
    Posts
    680
    Like I said, don't think there is a numbers problem. 17 K people are murdered per year. Can't imagine how many are grievously injured at our expense. don't think there is a numbers problem with motorcycle injuries. Obesity is a huge problem, lack of exercise another, once in a while someone is injured while riding. But riders are an easy target because it scares the bejeebers out of non riders.

    I think there are about 7 million bikes registered in the US, most of which sit in garages most of time. Civilian autos and light trucks, not sure, but somewhere around 250 million. Just back from a road trip up interstate 29, saw very few bikes and it's summer. Saw a lot of cars and trucks. when temps drop see no bikes.

    think of what could effectively be done to limit hospital visits? Like placing a scale at the supermarket checkout and limit purchases of junk food by body mass. Or we could have a SKU card on a chain around our necks listing our blood pressure, our HDL/LDL levels, our genetic composition, and then only approved insurance/government foods allowed. Just think much better off we'd be. What fun.

  2. #32
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,524
    Quote Originally Posted by 8ninety8 View Post
    Like I said, don't think there is a numbers problem. 17 K people are murdered per year. Can't imagine how many are grievously injured at our expense. don't think there is a numbers problem with motorcycle injuries. Obesity is a huge problem, lack of exercise another, once in a while someone is injured while riding. But riders are an easy target because it scares the bejeebers out of non riders.

    I think there are about 7 million bikes registered in the US, most of which sit in garages most of time. Civilian autos and light trucks, not sure, but somewhere around 250 million. Just back from a road trip up interstate 29, saw very few bikes and it's summer. Saw a lot of cars and trucks. when temps drop see no bikes.

    think of what could effectively be done to limit hospital visits? Like placing a scale at the supermarket checkout and limit purchases of junk food by body mass. Or we could have a SKU card on a chain around our necks listing our blood pressure, our HDL/LDL levels, our genetic composition, and then only approved insurance/government foods allowed. Just think much better off we'd be. What fun.
    Approximately 50% of all motorcycle accidents are single vehicle events. No other vehicles involved.........just the cycle and the rider. If the rider isn't wearing a helmet.........head trauma is likely. Of course, we have lots of folks that want to be "Bad for the Weekend" and they need to show that they are protecting the "Right of Stupidity".

    Relative to obesity, Biometric testing is being instituted by employers and insurance companies to bring you the future you feel is equitable. It's the beauty of the free market......employers are reducing their costs. Just for reference, a health insurance policy for a 2-person household runs between $9,000 and 14,000 per year these days when you consider the employer and employee cost. That's 20~30% of the median household income. My MC policy costs ~$300.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  3. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    254

    Ins

    I feel for all youse guys, honestly I do. I regularly shop my insurance, to price check if nothing else, but have kept the current policy for the last 5 years, 208.00 full coverage/yr. on my 04 Rockster. I am 62, with no accidents/claims on any bike ever, and also live in Pa.

  4. #34
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,524
    Quote Originally Posted by bmwcliff View Post
    have kept the current policy for the last 5 years, 208.00 full coverage/yr.
    That's a good rate, but you're a mere baby.........I've had my current policy for 28-yrs
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  5. #35
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    B.P., MN
    Posts
    680
    Just read a Regina Leader article on the SGI rate increases. SGI says there is a 9 million dollar liability gap because of too many claims. Exact numbers were not listed, the comments were most interesting.

    Personally a private industry is far more desirable then an unchallengeable gov. Agency who's word is final law, which you are compelled by legal mandate to follow. I can yet call up my agent and negotiate more medical, less comp., and so forth. And if I don't like the service provided, find a different carrier. I wonder how Manitoba Autopac and SGI were first sold to the voter? Was it that eliminating profit would make it cheap? I think so.

  6. #36
    Registered User WalterK75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mississauga, Ontario
    Posts
    519
    Considering the Conservative government in Saskatchewan, I would be interested in whether there is a privatisation move here. I'm naturally suspicious of insurance companies after some of the changes in Ontario, like 50% medical reduction but same premium, increases in insurance every year regardless of driving record, motorcycle insurance based on engine size, not on years of riding and safety record. If profit is a motive, I'm suspicious. Maybe I should sign this as a paranoid. Sorry about the rant.
    That which the Fascists hate above all else, is intelligence.
    Miguel de Unamuno

  7. #37
    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA
    Posts
    854

    Angry

    Things being as they are in this modern, 21st century world, we are but a walking target market. Every move is tracked and analysed, and fed right back to us, based on our own actions.

    You have a:

    Mobile phone? Got your calls, contacts, and locations/movements.
    Bank/ATM/credit card(s)? Got your buying habits and money incoming and outgoing, AND location & movement.
    PC? Smart phone? Got your browsing history, shopping habits, flights booked, banking & billing info.
    Car with OnStar? Got your driving habits and movements.
    Facebook? "Free" account with ANYBODY? YOU are the product.

    Face it. You are OUT. Nobody is hiding anything. Get over it, get over yourself. Big Brother has grown up while you were watching, right under your nose. And you A: didn't make one move to quash him, and B: it wouldn't matter if you had even tried.

    NOW, back "on topic"- Insurance companies are among the most powerful corporations in the world. OF COURSE they track you, and anything pertinent to them, and to their OWN bottom line/profit margin. I'm not certain which is really worse- an insurance company on its own, or a government running an insurance plan on its citizens. In the end, how much does it really matter, if you have zero control over which it is destined to be?

    In the case of Canada- the citizens, at the very least, know they are paying exorbitantly for SOMETHING- socialized (OH THE HORROR!) medicine- if nothing else, their medical needs are taken care of. In the case of us poor suckers who are at the mercy of these mega corporations, we pay, pay, pay again, and pay some more. At the end of the day, what do you get for the thousands and thousands you pay? NOTHING, nada, zippo, ZERO. You don't get one flippin thing for all the hard earned $$$ you pay to these bandits. In fact, IF you should ever file a claim, you are made to feel like the criminal, and MAY be "dropped" for being too big a "risk".

    But HEY! It's a "free market society" right? Having giant mega corporations competing with each other to see who gets to rape you, while their lobbyists and super pacs rule our government is AWESOME!

    isn't it?


    The thing I see in all this, that makes the most sense to me, is that somebody is looking at peoples' habits, and may base costs for each person according to their lifestyle and general habits. In my case, this would work for me, and against me. I live a healthy lifestyle- stay strong, work hard, eat well, and don't smoke, do drugs, or drink excessively. On a bike, or in a car, I MIGHT fall into the more "aggressive" category however.
    Let's just say I don't pussy-foot around when I gotta get somewhere. I'm not an @$$hole about it, but I usually go fast when on the open road, NOT "in town". So, while I may be OK with paying health care insurance according to my lifestyle, paying motor vehicle insurance according to my driving habits would offset any "savings".


    In the end, there is but one thing which is absolutely certain- and one thing only. "Keeping costs down" is a sound-byte style catch phrase, very similar to "balancing the budget"- IE: total BS. Costs for insurance- and everything else- will go up, have been going up, and will always go up.

    Period, bottom line, end of story.
    Be The Change You Want To See In The World

  8. #38
    K'nothead
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saskatchestan
    Posts
    94

    Installation

    Well I finally got the unit installed yesterday, and before my bike came out of the shop, I had the email confirming my activation. This particular shop didn't want me present in the shop during the operation, but prior to the install, the mechanic and I discussed the wheres and hows, and agreed on what was to be done, so I was comfortable enough. There's only one m/c shop in Moose Jaw, and it's not BMW, not that it's that important. I did have the option to go to the dealer (anywhere in the Province) of my choice.

    It took about 30 minutes, including the above discussion. The unit itself is quite small, and only requires 3 connections. On my F650GS twin, the +12V and ground were easy, coming from the battery with ring connectors. For the +12V ignition switch, we decided to use the stub harness from the BMW accessory outlet that I long ago had replaced with a constant 12V. The quirk that the BMW outlet doesn't shut off with the ignition (but shuts off after about 3 minutes) does not present a problem to the unit. Seeing as the shop couldn't source a BMW connector to match the stub, we decided to bridge into the appropriate wire. We discussed using the supplied "scotchlocks", or removing enough insulation for a splice. I opted for the splice, (as the unit would be cut when/if ever removed) and I'll never need that stub anyway. Other options would be headlight circuits, or anything that is switched (more or less) by the ignition. The unit itself was zip-tied to the main wiring harness beside my fuel pump, under the seat. It could have been oriented in any direction, as its supposedly completely weatherproof.

    I wasn't able to get any data from it for the first day, as its apparently common to have a data delay of 24 hours or so after initial activation. However, the ride I took last evening, as well as the ride I took this morning were there when I got home this morning. I'll cover the data and the displays in another post.

    JP
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #39
    Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197 bogthebasher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Calgary AB
    Posts
    840
    UBI without consideration of fault free motorcycle miles, safety and refresher traing is only getting 30% of the story. I would never wish to live in a part of our country that mandated provincial tax or insurance - I believe in free market completion pure and simple.

    All of the posters before accurately state many of us already carry devices that track much of our activity. Why should anyone pay provincial tax to have them pay a software behemoth like SAP develope a solution when the free market world of Smartphone App developers could do it for nearly nothing using devices alre already aboard many of our rides?

    This stuff sends a chill down my spine. I think I shall not take a break and relax on my deck with a homemade beverage and turn my iPhone OFF!
    Last edited by bogthebasher; 08-02-2013 at 11:38 PM. Reason: Typo
    Ken
    [2008 R1200RT (Biarritz Blue) - Mine]
    [2007 R1200RT (Sand Biege) - Hers]

  10. #40
    K'nothead
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saskatchestan
    Posts
    94
    Quote Originally Posted by bogthebasher View Post
    Why should anyone pay provincial tax to have them pay a software behemoth like SAP develope a solution when the free market world of Smartphone App developers could do it for nearly nothing using devices alre already aboard many of our rides?

    This stuff sends a chill down my spine. I think I shall not take a break and relax on my deck with a homemade beverage and turn my iPhone OFF!
    I repeat, I don't want to be baited into discussing the philosophy of these devices, but your paranoia needs a retune. No provincial taxes are paying for this project. SGI (and most of the other Crowns) generate a modest profit for the Province and unlike many so-called "private" businesses, do not require or use tax dollars to operate or do research. The books are open to the public if anyone is in doubt. Additionally, the contractor is underwriting a portion of the project in hopes of future marketability.

    SAP was chosen by the contractor as a partner because of their extensive experience in Formula 1 racing and other telemetry solutions. While there may potentially be cheaper alternatives (I suggest it'll take more than the average app developer), the choice is logical and appropriate given the complexity of the task.

    Regardless, I appreciate the fact that our insurance company is prepared to work on innovative alternatives, rather than nonchalantly upping our rates without any regard or mercy.

    JP

  11. #41
    K'nothead
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Saskatchestan
    Posts
    94

    First Data

    As previously mentioned, the Telematics device contains GPS as well as wireless data, and apparently an accelerometer. It seems to record events at 2 sec intervals and reports them to the database when able (i.e. within range).

    Each user gets their own "dashboard" which is a web portal on the Insurance Company's website and provides a synopsis of their driving behavior. Each Monday the user will get a report by email of the previous week's summary.

    Dashboard-20130802.JPGDashboard2-20130802.JPG

    In addition to the Dashboard, further reports are available, such as the Events Report. Events are defined as Overspeeds (both "soft" and "extreme"), Hard Accelerations, and Hard Brakes. As of yet, there is no data on cornering force, but building that capability is supposedly one of the main criteria. Given the technical issues, it is understandable that this may take some time to develop. The Events Report can be generated for any specific date or range of dates. It's kind of neat as it shows exactly what, where and when. The "where" is accomplished with a map and locator arrows that show precisely where each "event" took place. Hovering your mouse (not shown) over any arrowhead pops up the specific log entry detailed at left. The log provides detailed date and time (hours/min/sec), the event, and the associated data. In my case, all my events so far are overspeeds, so the log provides my actual instantaneous speed, and the posted limit for that section of road in brackets. Errors of posted limits in the database are to be reported and fixed as they show up. I'll try and incur some hard accelerations and braking for my next example to determine their thresholds and how they are measured.

    Events Report-20130802.JPG

    In the example I've shown, this is the cloverleaf intersection of Main Street North and #1 Highway. Because this is the Prairies, and corners are to be valued, I often take three leafs of the cloverleaf rather than just turn right. This is apparent when you see that I approached from the west on the #1 (limit 100 kph), passed under Main Street (limit 70 kph), and turned north, then back west on #1 and finally a turn back south on Main Street (call it my version of the "Long Way Round" ). The top visible log entry (08:49:57) is the first of the arrows as I exit the #1 for the first time.

    Well, the data shows that I held relatively constant speeds through the corners and accelerated smoothly out of them (I used no brakes throughout). Unfortunately, the on and off-ramps are entered into the database as 50 kph limit, resulting in my impressive collection of "events". Logically, one should not slow to 50 kph on a major highway prior to exiting, nor maintain 50 until you are already in the 100 kph zone before accelerating. Admittedly one of the program's stated criteria is to ultimately measure cornering force, but arbitrarily placing speed limits in corners is not the same thing. I have pointed this out through the site feedback forum, received agreement, and understand it will be corrected.


    As mentioned above, I'll report again when I have more observations.

    JP

  12. #42
    Rocky Bow BMW Riders #197 bogthebasher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Calgary AB
    Posts
    840
    Quote Originally Posted by jopars View Post
    In the example I've shown, this is the cloverleaf intersection of Main Street North and #1 Highway. Because this is the Prairies, and corners are to be valued, I often take three leafs of the cloverleaf rather than just turn right. This is apparent when you see that I approached from the west on the #1 (limit 100 kph), passed under Main Street (limit 70 kph), and turned north, then back west on #1 and finally a turn back south on Main Street (call it my version of the "Long Way Round" ). The top visible log entry (08:49:57) is the first of the arrows as I exit the #1 for the first time. JP
    LOL, I thought I was the only one who did that!
    Ken
    [2008 R1200RT (Biarritz Blue) - Mine]
    [2007 R1200RT (Sand Biege) - Hers]

  13. #43
    Out There Somewhere bmwrider88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Harrisburg, PA
    Posts
    854

    Thanks For The Follow-Up

    I am interested to see how this plays out for you. Progressive "offered" to "let" us customers install a similar device a couple years ago, and I declined. I do believe I mentioned that I sometimes..er...often ride and drive fast, and maybe even in such a way as some might term "aggressive". So not sure how positively this would work out for me.
    I believe I also mentioned that I can easily get behind a user-habits based insurance premium plan... tho again, it would potentially both help and hurt, in my own case. Having just spent several weeks in Northern Europe, with speed cameras all over the place, I can say it tends to slow things down... for better or worse.

    I appreciate your keeping us up to "speed", if you'll pardon the pun.
    Be The Change You Want To See In The World

  14. #44
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,524
    Quote Originally Posted by bmwrider88 View Post
    I am interested to see how this plays out for you. Progressive "offered" to "let" us customers install a similar device a couple years ago, and I declined. I do believe I mentioned that I sometimes..er...often ride and drive fast, and maybe even in such a way as some might term "aggressive". So not sure how positively this would work out for me.
    I believe I also mentioned that I can easily get behind a user-habits based insurance premium plan... tho again, it would potentially both help and hurt, in my own case. Having just spent several weeks in Northern Europe, with speed cameras all over the place, I can say it tends to slow things down... for better or worse.

    I appreciate your keeping us up to "speed", if you'll pardon the pun.
    In theory, if all vehicles were so equipment, you could drastically reduce the police manpower allocated to traffic speed control and safety. Just like the cameras, when the vehicle exceeds a given speed in a specified area, a fine is issued. It's a rude surprise when the letter arrives, but the camera works 24/7/365 and has no pension or fringe benefits. The onboard sensor scenario would be much simpler, eliminating the need for the second photo to capture the license plate which is then tracked back thru the DMV of the issuing state.

    It's almost as simple as adding gas taxes so that use, i.e., vehicle speed and acceleration, is penalized.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  15. #45
    Registered User WalterK75's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mississauga, Ontario
    Posts
    519
    Do we need yet another corporation, organization or government agency monitoring what we do?
    That which the Fascists hate above all else, is intelligence.
    Miguel de Unamuno

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •