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Thread: Msrp ?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    By the way you can ignore this question if you feel it's none of my business.

    No intention to ignore the question.I started a reply this morning then was called in early to work. Work, a race update in BR&TMR and I am back at it again. I am already signed up for a MOOC over at Coursera.com and frankly don?t have the time or inclination to get involved in BMW MOA MBA wanabe thread. Please take this response as one big FWIW because I don?t intend defending it.

    I will try and frame my response in terms of the OP. Apparently the simple question has been forgotten.


    I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

    Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

    If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

    Are there any MOA discounts ?



    I took this a single transaction question. It involves a number of factors but at heart a simple negotiating question dealing with a single transaction. The OP was not able to come to an acceptable deal for both parties with the original dealer, went to another dealer and is taking delivery of a new R from them.

    - I?m happy for the OP. He did what I have done in the past and I hope he enjoys his R as much as I enjoy mine.
    - I don?t think the first dealer is good or bad. It just was not able to work a deal they felt benefited them and would make the sale.
    - I don?t think the selling dealer is anything beyond one that had the business conditions and willingness to make the deal with the OP.



    There is a reason behind the question.

    The motorcycle industry is a fairly low profit margin industry especially given the fact that it is a true speciality industry at least in the USA. On a nationwide basis there is no such thing as selling major quantity as there is in automotive.


    Confusing the forest for the trees.

    Forest: The motorcycle industry overall is returning a reasonable profit for investors, paying dividends and expanding.

    Trees: Dealers, as a species of trees that make up the forest are hard pressed and operating on slim margins.

    The two are often confused when we talk about profitability and margins.


    I was just interested in seeing profit margins from other industry's and how they compared and whether a given industry had mass market appeal or was considered speciality as I assume the margins would probably be different between the two..

    As I said I have managed in a variety of industries. With very few exceptions these have been publicly held companies so the margins are out there in the filings, annual reports etc. I don?t mean it as a dodge but information you are looking for margins and specific strategies at the transaction level were things I was not to divulge when I worked for the companies and don?t feel inclined to do so in a thread on this forum. In several cases the information would be so moldy due to drastic changes in how these industries do business and price due to the way the industries evolved.


    We run an extremely transparent store. I've operated that way for maybe 2 decades. Anyone who walks in the door is welcome to see dealer cost on anything. The margin of profit is nothing that needs to be hidden and I find it to be an educational tool as many people tend to assume we make more than reality

    Transparency is the new cool term. For all the definitions and efforts at it I don?t think we understand its purpose or how to use it.

    Margins
    Percentages keep getting thrown around to describe margins. I have yet to be able to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys with percentages. I can do all of those with dollars.

    The OP had certain amount of dollars he wanted to spend on R1200R.

    Dealer A has a business plan that in this case did not leave him the margin they felt they needed to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

    Dealer B was able to do that.

    The trees need to be feed. Dealers need to have a margin that allows them to survive and hopefully thrive. Some trees are big. Some trees are small.

    The OP is going riding this weekend.
    Dealer A will open their shop and hopefully sell their R1200R and then go riding.
    Dealer B will deliver a bike and have money to go out and make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

    I have to catch up on class work, do some fun reading and work this weekend. Monday is a day off and I can play. You guys have fun with this rambling thread.
    No offense. I thought it was a reasonable question for a number of reasons. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.

  2. #92
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    No offense. I thought it was a reasonable question for a number of reasons. If I'm wrong I'm wrong.
    No offense taken. It is not about you being right or wrong. Frankly this boring. Quit obsessing. Go for a ride.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

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  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    No offense taken. It is not about you being right or wrong. Frankly this boring. Quit obsessing. Go for a ride.
    Already did. Love riding at night during the summer. Nice and cool and a lack of traffic!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    I agree... the question was asked for the sake of questioning in wondering how other industries mark-up in order to discount off MSRP. Low markups mean small discounts. Large discounts I assume are operating at fatter margins than this industry allows. Just stuff for my own head as I find it interesting.
    I'll bite (with zero feeling that this has anything to do with buying something with 2/4 wheels) as I worked in supermarkets in early 60's. FWIW,I did every job except meat cutter,deli & store owner, which is why I left as it payed too little no matter what you did. The order book(this was in the times of "paper & pencil ordering", when we walked the shelves & penciled in that depts' order then the grocery mgr. transcribed those tic marks onto a master order sheet which was another huge sheet of paper. The % markups were in the order book and typical for canned goods was in the 20-25% range and this carried over to most regular items. We used ~28% for fresh produce. Sundries like toothpaste were the big markups items & in the 50% markup area.
    Later when I worked for Goodyear in mfg plant I heard from a good source that some OEM tires were going for $5 ea, when the street price was at least 5-6 times that amt..
    Groceries in general are high volume low markup affairs with the deli being an exception back then.
    This is "Billy's history lesson" for the day. Toilet tissue was ~ 39cents, bread 2/29,hamburger 39cents#,box cereal 15-25 cents. Minimum wage 85 cents.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Wow, this thing is really meandering around... I went back and looked at the title of the Motorrad forum are - "General BMW and bike talk". I know there's a wisp of BMW and motorcycles being discussed here, but let's try and stay a little closer to the OP's questions about MSRP and his purchase of a new BMW. Thanks...
    My apology! I find it entertaining either way & truth be known, Mottorad has become the new "Campfire" which IMO, is boring due to stuff like word assoc & a few other mindless threads.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  6. #96
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    Excuse me, but what was your (the) original question?

    Msrp ?

    I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

    Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

    If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

    Are there any MOA discounts

    There ya go....
    MOA #46783
    2014 R1200RT

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Excuse me, but what was your (the) original question?

    Msrp ?

    I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

    Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

    If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

    Are there any MOA discounts

    There ya go....
    Take MSRP and multiply by .85. That will put you somewhere close to dealer net on the unit. Add $1k to $1.5k and in all likelihood you now own a new motorcycle. No guarantee of course. Other variables may be involved.

    The saddlebag cost is harder to know as it could quite literally be anything.

    The multiplier will get you close on most cars or motorcycles by the way.

    Clarification: MSRP on only the unit and possibly the accessories. The freight is the freight and a dealer pays whatever you see on the sticker as there is no freight mark-up.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Take MSRP and multiply by .85. That will put you somewhere close to dealer net on the unit. Add $1k to $1.5k and in all likelihood you now own a new motorcycle. No guarantee of course. Other variables may be involved.

    The saddlebag cost is harder to know as it could quite literally be anything.

    The multiplier will get you close on most cars or motorcycles by the way.

    Clarification: MSRP on only the unit and possibly the accessories. The freight is the freight and a dealer pays whatever you see on the sticker as there is no freight mark-up.

    You are kidding...Right? Apparently my attempt to put this thread back on track only managed to start it over. In 10 or 20 post, you Billy, should ask AGAIN, what profit margins might be in other industries so we can compare...it was really fun the first time around...LOL.

    The first law of the Internet Forum is apparently true here....contributors type MUCH MORE than they read.
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  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    You are kidding...Right? Apparently my attempt to put this thread back on track only managed to start it over. In 10 or 20 post, you Billy, should ask AGAIN, what profit margins might be in other industries so we can compare...it was really fun the first time around...LOL.

    The first law of the Internet Forum is apparently true here....contributors type MUCH MORE than they read.
    Dan,

    You answered the question in the first page of responses. There is absolutely zero benefit in trying to "focus" the responses of others.

    "....grant me the courage to change those things what I can..............."
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36654 View Post
    Dan,

    You answered the question in the first page of responses. There is absolutely zero benefit in trying to "focus" the responses of others.

    "....grant me the courage to change those things what I can..............."

    I know that, but I just couldn't help myself....
    MOA #46783
    2014 R1200RT

  11. #101
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    You can buy the OEM panniers as a "part" for 20% off from certain dealers.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    I know that, but I just couldn't help myself....
    That's why only a few people make it to sainthood........
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    You are kidding...Right? Apparently my attempt to put this thread back on track only managed to start it over. In 10 or 20 post, you Billy, should ask AGAIN, what profit margins might be in other industries so we can compare...it was really fun the first time around...LOL.

    The first law of the Internet Forum is apparently true here....contributors type MUCH MORE than they read.
    Guilty as charged.

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