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  1. #1
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    Msrp ?

    I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

    Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

    If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

    Are there any MOA discounts ?

  2. #2
    Sign Guy Bdiver's Avatar
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    Cool

    Ask the dealer if he has to take a hit on parts when you need to purchase those to? I'd be happy to pay MSRP for my parts but it seems they all charge more for every part I've purchased in the past 7-8 yrs from a variety of dealers and in different states.

    I would call a few other dealers and ask for prices on the same bike & setup. It can't hurt and if another dealer gives you a better price you can break it in on the way home! Also ask if they can toss anything in (helmet, gloves, t-shirt, discount for something)? Never hurts to ask but I wouldn't low ball as I hate folks doing that to me.

    Best of luck on your bike hunting and purchase.
    Brian - Everett, WA
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    I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left!

  3. #3
    Registered User k12lts's Avatar
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    There is a $500 MOA club discount thru July 31.

    There are plenty of dealers that will discount from MSRP, there just may not be one near you. Call around and find out.

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    Where are you located?
    '14 R1200RT

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    Registered User lkraus's Avatar
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    There a lot of threads about negotiating the price on a new BMW. It seems current model year bikes usually go for list price. There are often monthly BMW promotions, such as the current one that adds a set of side cases to the R1200R at no charge. I've seen promotions reduce new bike prices by $1000, but only for prior year models. Sometimes you can save a bit if the dealer has a demo bike available for sale, but I don't think the demo bikes are eligible for the monthly promotions. You will probably have better luck negotiating a discount on other accessories, or a free 600mi service.
    Larry
    2006 R1200RT

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    Based on 35 yrs in the automobile business [wholesale & retail] I do know that most incentives require dealer financial participation. It can be substantial. It's dealer choice if they will give further discount, usually based on availability. On my R1200R purchase 2 yrs ago I found that making a deal including a 20% discount on accessories at the time of the intial purchase worked. Dealer and buyer have to have a win/win situation. My most important part of any deal is my impression on how future service will be. You'll love the R1200R!
    Janda
    2011 R1200R

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkraus View Post
    There a lot of threads about negotiating the price on a new BMW. It seems current model year bikes usually go for list price. There are often monthly BMW promotions, such as the current one that adds a set of side cases to the R1200R at no charge. I've seen promotions reduce new bike prices by $1000, but only for prior year models. Sometimes you can save a bit if the dealer has a demo bike available for sale, but I don't think the demo bikes are eligible for the monthly promotions. You will probably have better luck negotiating a discount on other accessories, or a free 600mi service.
    Demo's are not part of an end-user promotion as you state. A dealer will get a discount in order to purchase a demo but there are rules associated with that purchase. I was witness to a few variances of the rules (model dependent) as stated by NA but basically they state the dealer is required to use the bike as a demo for "x" period of time and/or miles. Although the dealer will get a discount the demo is obviously going to have miles on it and therefore will typically become far more price negotiable from an end-user point of view. NA recognizes that fact and provides a discount to the dealer. Nothing huge but it reflects the drop in perceived value from an end-user point of view.

  8. #8
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Fwiw

    By the way you can ignore this question if you feel it's none of my business.

    No intention to ignore the question.I started a reply this morning then was called in early to work. Work, a race update in BR&TMR and I am back at it again. I am already signed up for a MOOC over at Coursera.com and frankly don?t have the time or inclination to get involved in BMW MOA MBA wanabe thread. Please take this response as one big FWIW because I don?t intend defending it.

    I will try and frame my response in terms of the OP. Apparently the simple question has been forgotten.


    I am looking at. 2013 R1200R

    Dealer told me that while the side bags are included by BMW, the dealer has to take a hit on them and they therefore do not have room for movement off of MSRP ?

    If I buy new what should I expect to pay ?

    Are there any MOA discounts ?



    I took this a single transaction question. It involves a number of factors but at heart a simple negotiating question dealing with a single transaction. The OP was not able to come to an acceptable deal for both parties with the original dealer, went to another dealer and is taking delivery of a new R from them.

    - I?m happy for the OP. He did what I have done in the past and I hope he enjoys his R as much as I enjoy mine.
    - I don?t think the first dealer is good or bad. It just was not able to work a deal they felt benefited them and would make the sale.
    - I don?t think the selling dealer is anything beyond one that had the business conditions and willingness to make the deal with the OP.



    There is a reason behind the question.

    The motorcycle industry is a fairly low profit margin industry especially given the fact that it is a true speciality industry at least in the USA. On a nationwide basis there is no such thing as selling major quantity as there is in automotive.


    Confusing the forest for the trees.

    Forest: The motorcycle industry overall is returning a reasonable profit for investors, paying dividends and expanding.

    Trees: Dealers, as a species of trees that make up the forest are hard pressed and operating on slim margins.

    The two are often confused when we talk about profitability and margins.


    I was just interested in seeing profit margins from other industry's and how they compared and whether a given industry had mass market appeal or was considered speciality as I assume the margins would probably be different between the two..

    As I said I have managed in a variety of industries. With very few exceptions these have been publicly held companies so the margins are out there in the filings, annual reports etc. I don?t mean it as a dodge but information you are looking for margins and specific strategies at the transaction level were things I was not to divulge when I worked for the companies and don?t feel inclined to do so in a thread on this forum. In several cases the information would be so moldy due to drastic changes in how these industries do business and price due to the way the industries evolved.


    We run an extremely transparent store. I've operated that way for maybe 2 decades. Anyone who walks in the door is welcome to see dealer cost on anything. The margin of profit is nothing that needs to be hidden and I find it to be an educational tool as many people tend to assume we make more than reality

    Transparency is the new cool term. For all the definitions and efforts at it I don?t think we understand its purpose or how to use it.

    Margins
    Percentages keep getting thrown around to describe margins. I have yet to be able to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys with percentages. I can do all of those with dollars.

    The OP had certain amount of dollars he wanted to spend on R1200R.

    Dealer A has a business plan that in this case did not leave him the margin they felt they needed to make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

    Dealer B was able to do that.

    The trees need to be feed. Dealers need to have a margin that allows them to survive and hopefully thrive. Some trees are big. Some trees are small.

    The OP is going riding this weekend.
    Dealer A will open their shop and hopefully sell their R1200R and then go riding.
    Dealer B will deliver a bike and have money to go out and make payroll, pay bills, feed my family or buy toys.

    I have to catch up on class work, do some fun reading and work this weekend. Monday is a day off and I can play. You guys have fun with this rambling thread.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  9. #9
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
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    When I bought an R1200R in 2009 I got 14% off MSRP as well as free luggage and mounts. I'm quite certain the dealer did not lose money on the deal.
    Kevin Huddy
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    Sorry, but no one, even the smartest of the smart here on this forum can definitively say "You should pay no more than $XX,XXX." Every deal is different, every buyer is different, and the same bike sold by the same dealer in August may very well be a different price as one sold in March.

    Good advice to call a few dealers and ask. Good ones that I know of are- Max, (NY/CT/NH) Bob's,(MD) Morton's (VA) and Pandora (TENN).
    But, having been in the new car business, NO ONE is going to go out of their way to give a phone shopper a great deal. Only when you are sitting across the desk from them is when they'll take you seriously as a potential buyer.

    Also, dealer stock means a lot. Dealer "A" may have two RTs in stock and may not feel a need to give as deep a discount as Dealer "B" who has 11 in stock. I've been treated REALLY well and fairly by Pandoras and can't say enough good things about them..

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    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    When I bought an R1200R in 2009 I got 14% off MSRP as well as free luggage and mounts. I'm quite certain the dealer did not lose money on the deal.
    It would be interesting to see what kinds of discounts other non-motorcycle industry's give to their customers. What does your mark-up schedule look like? Do you mark up enough in order to provide the ability to mark down and still be profitable? Would anyone here like to 'fess up as to how much their industry discounts? And, whether your industry typically provides for such things as health benefits? If you're a clothing company do your brand new arrivals appear on the shelf at maybe a 30% give or take profit margin? If sold at full list?

    Let's here from some of the audience...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    It would be interesting to see what kinds of discounts other non-motorcycle industry's give to their customers. What does your mark-up schedule look like? Do you mark up enough in order to provide the ability to mark down and still be profitable? Would anyone here like to 'fess up as to how much their industry discounts? And, whether your industry typically provides for such things as health benefits? If you're a clothing company do your brand new arrivals appear on the shelf at maybe a 30% give or take profit margin? If sold at full list?

    Let's here from some of the audience...
    I don't think anyone has responded to this question. Are there any takers? Let's see where other industries stack up in markup.

  13. #13
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwstormin View Post
    I'd follow the advice of those that say get out-of-town quotes too. I live in Colorado and bought my BMW in Nevada and my Triumph in Florida. You can shop for the best price and get a great ride home from a new place without having to make a long round trip ride. Yes, there will be air fare, but I've gotten the sellers to hold the bike 2-3 weeks to allow me to shop for a decent one-way air ticket.
    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    I don't think anyone has responded to this question. Are there any takers? Let's see where other industries stack up in markup.
    I have spent most of my business life managing (at GM - COO) perishable products with a shelf lives ranging from 12 hours to perhaps a few months. We offered employees benefit packages and in many settings had unions. On a transaction basis, depending on your perspective, the markups or ability and willingness to discount to make a single transaction for the same product were substantial. I would argue that the difference between a truly perishable product and an inventory made up motorcycles or some other durable good renders the comparison of discounts and pricing on transaction level irrelevant.

    What they do share at the transaction level is for a good deal both buyer and seller have to see a value equal to and better yet greater than the transaction costs. If either side can not do that politely walk away. It does not make the prospective buyer a jerk or the dealer a bad dealer. It just means given their current constraints to make a deal they can?t do that.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    I have spent most of my business life managing (at GM - COO) perishable products with a shelf lives ranging from 12 hours to perhaps a few months. We offered employees benefit packages and in many settings had unions. On a transaction basis, depending on your perspective, the markups or ability and willingness to discount to make a single transaction for the same product were substantial. I would argue that the difference between a truly perishable product and an inventory made up motorcycles or some other durable good renders the comparison of discounts and pricing on transaction level irrelevant.

    What they do share at the transaction level is for a good deal both buyer and seller have to see a value equal to and better yet greater than the transaction costs. If either side can not do that politely walk away. It does not make the prospective buyer a jerk or the dealer a bad dealer. It just means given their current constraints to make a deal they can?t do that.
    OK, but 2 questions:
    1) What percentage was the perishable marked up?
    2) Was the perishable a mass market item or specialized small market?

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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    I don't think anyone has responded to this question. Are there any takers? Let's see where other industries stack up in markup.
    I don't know how much it relates to today, but many years ago while in HS/College I worked at an auto parts business. (New parts). The best customers (like car dealerships) received a 30-40% discount on everything, so the markup had to be humongous.

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