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Thread: Valeo Starter Failure - Another Cause of Failure

  1. #16
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Absolutely, solenoid plunger (armature) and cavity should be clean and dry, and never be lubricated.
    Now I've got two things to fix. First, I think I better pull the starter and do a better job of securing the planetary gear cover and then degrease the plunger. A year ago when I rebuilt the starter, it had a thin coating of lubrication on the plunger which had accumulated dust and was binding, causing the starter to stay engaged a little too long and whine. So naturally, I cleaned it an put a microscopic coating of lube on it. I will note that the plunger looked a bit worn.

    Maybe I should stop fooling around with a ten year old starter and just get a new one ... nah.

  2. #17
    Registered User PAS's Avatar
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    Here are the new housings with the magnet retainers.
    http://www.euromotoelectrics.com/pro...6ra-magccw.htm

  3. #18
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Hi Guys, you have all done a great job on this thread
    It nice to see a thread that documents a repair and the possible fixes- with some fine pictures.
    Thanks, Gary
    "Well they say.. time loves a hero but only time will tell.. If he's real, he's a legend from heaven If he ain't he was sent here from hell" Lowell George
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  4. #19
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    Now I've got two things to fix. First, I think I better pull the starter and do a better job of securing the planetary gear cover and then degrease the plunger. A year ago when I rebuilt the starter, it had a thin coating of lubrication on the plunger which had accumulated dust and was binding, causing the starter to stay engaged a little too long and whine. So naturally, I cleaned it an put a microscopic coating of lube on it. I will note that the plunger looked a bit worn.

    Maybe I should stop fooling around with a ten year old starter and just get a new one ... nah.
    Nah!s So easy to service, keep it running, especially since service parts are so easy to get.

    Where the solenoid lube issue really shows up is when the bike is cold. Very sluggish to start initially but then is fine for the rest of the day (gum warms up and is less viscous) . When I hear that complaint I know exactly where to go.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  5. #20
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    actually in automotive starters, the trend lately has been to grease the plunger with light silicone, it keeps them from rusting and freezing. Now most of us do not wash our bikes like the harley folks, but there can be some rust.

    For gluing magnets I have had best luck with silicone seal, You need a thin adhesive, and silicone seal can be thinned with Xylene into a thick paint. It does need to cure for 2 or 3 days though. JB weld is filled, and does not squeeze down very thin. However, magnet housing is cheap and magnet position is critical, so get a new housing.

    The best grease for the spline and inside of the drive is lubriplate 777 or equivalent. Dow Krytox silicone grease is also good.

    Rod

  6. #21
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PAS View Post
    Here are the new housings with the magnet retainers.


    I noticed that Valeo mod when I went to Euro MotoElectrics to check on the parts I needed.

    Back in the mid 90s when magnets becoming unglued from their motor housings was as common as anything, I wondered why they didn't angle the edges of the magnets and then have a wedge hold them to the motor housing with small screws. Valeo's mod is another solution and admission to an issue they had.

    Actually, the magnet issue back then wasn't due to the glue letting go, but the magnet breaking away from the motor housing. It broke away due to vibration, at least in the magnet failure on my airhead. The magnet curvature had a radius smaller than the radius of the motor housing. That meant that the edges of the magnets were not making contact with the motor housing and with a thin smear of glue along the center of the magnet, the edges were even more elevated. Vibration caused a rocking and breakage of the magnet (my motor housing had a thin layer magnet material still attached to it with a thin smear of grey glue under it).

    Valeo had a slightly different designed magnet that they used in the starter motors of Saturn cars (the motor housing from them could be used in our starters) where the edges of the magnets (the edge sitting against the motor housing) were raised, thereby creating a thin gap under the magnet which was gap filled with glue.

    As for adhesives, Henkel - Loctite has/had a couple of them specifically made for magnets used in electric motors. Note their gap fill limitation. Loctite 392 is one of them.

  7. #22
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Absolutely, solenoid plunger (armature) and cavity should be clean and dry, and never be lubricated.
    The solenoid cavity actually has a thin sheet of polished stainless steel inserted into it so that rust cannot form and the solenoid plunger is plated as well.

  8. #23
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    An update to my Valeo starter which I rebuilt last weekend.

    The starter was completely disassembled and all parts were cleaned with gas to remove any old grease and then washed with my favourite water based degreaser, Swish Facto AT30.


    Background...

    The coating on the front edge of the motor armature windings was abraded away when the grease retainer in the planetary gear housing had come loose and rubbed against it.





    After a thorough cleaning, two coats of MG Chemicals "Red GLPT Insulating Varnish" was applied to the armature windings...



    A new grease retaining plate was installed in the planetary gear housing...


    The plastic housing of the planetary gear drive was scribed/etched at the edges of the grease retainer so that it will hopefully prevent the new grease retainer from popping out. This seems to be a common problem.


    The motor armature segments were also cleaned up...



    All back together, tested and ready for the next Valeo starter failure...
    Last edited by GlobalRider; 08-19-2014 at 05:09 PM. Reason: typo

  9. #24
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    By the way, this is a pic of all the parts that make up a Valeo D6RA75 starter...


  10. #25
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Great photo shoot, a good resource for the members.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  11. #26
    Alps Adventurer GlobalRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Great photo shoot, a good resource for the members.
    I've got more pics of the rebuild which I will post some info, when time permits.

  12. #27
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Alex, Excellent write up, thanks.

    I noticed you didn't remove the starter gear from the shaft. I found it VERY hard to get back on.

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