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Thread: Warranty repair doesn't pay for everything...?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by sloride View Post
    I don't think that that dealer has it right.

    We need a warranty attorney
    That was not his belief, that was his determination, based on experience. He told me that anytime he has put in for "consumables" on a warranty order, they were denied. He's been with this dealer for several years.

    Personally, I think they should cover that cost if the warrantied failure forces new fluids to be needed. However, as a $ issue, it's not really big bucks, so it's not really worth getting too worked up over. jmho.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  2. #92
    Registered User ajaxthegreater's Avatar
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    The end. For now.

    OK, I got the 2012 warranty booklet which is now 32 pages but essentially says the same thing as the 2007 warranty card I posted earlier. I also spoke with Adam the service advisor of BMW of Denver and asked him about my situation. He said it was true that BMW does not reimburse the dealer for fluids on warranty work, but they typically do not charge the customer anyway for the sake of goodwill. That's nice but you know, in thinking about it I realized that this really does not matter to me when you get down to the warranty itself. The warranty says it gives me specific legal rights, which is all I am interested in here. Whatever arrangement the dealer has with BMW has nothing to do with me on this issue.

    So the bottom line is that I have a warranty contract that came with a motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer. The warranty was part of the sale, and we are both bound by its terms. The warranty states that the dealer will correct any defect in materials or workmanship for the warranty period without charge for parts or labor. While certain parts are not included in the warranty. there is no exclusion for consumables. It may be BMW?s policy not to reimburse dealers for the cost of oil or other consumable items, but this is a matter between the dealer and BMW and has no bearing on my warranty rights which state that I am to receive the warranty service at no cost for parts or labor. The oil they charged me for is a part (it has a part number) that was necessary for the repair. Therefore I believe the dealer has violated the terms of the warranty by charging me for this part when he performed the warranty repair.

    So I wrote a letter stating all of this and we'll see where it goes. The only other thing of note that came out of reading the warranty is all of the items that are not included in any warranty: Brake pads and rotors, ball joints, control cables, drive chains, belts, sprockets, heated hand grips....etc. If the wrong item went bad (like a ball joint in the front suspension) you could be sol for a lotta cash. It is a good idea to read this stuff, there are a few surprises in there, some of which may be avoidable.
    Bill in Highlands Ranch, CO
    2012 R1200RT and some other older junk

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxthegreater View Post
    OK, I got the 2012 warranty booklet which is now 32 pages but essentially says the same thing as the 2007 warranty card I posted earlier. I also spoke with Adam the service advisor of BMW of Denver and asked him about my situation. He said it was true that BMW does not reimburse the dealer for fluids on warranty work, but they typically do not charge the customer anyway for the sake of goodwill. That's nice but you know, in thinking about it I realized that this really does not matter to me when you get down to the warranty itself. The warranty says it gives me specific legal rights, which is all I am interested in here. Whatever arrangement the dealer has with BMW has nothing to do with me on this issue.

    So the bottom line is that I have a warranty contract that came with a motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer. The warranty was part of the sale, and we are both bound by its terms. The warranty states that the dealer will correct any defect in materials or workmanship for the warranty period without charge for parts or labor. While certain parts are not included in the warranty. there is no exclusion for consumables. It may be BMW?s policy not to reimburse dealers for the cost of oil or other consumable items, but this is a matter between the dealer and BMW and has no bearing on my warranty rights which state that I am to receive the warranty service at no cost for parts or labor. The oil they charged me for is a part (it has a part number) that was necessary for the repair. Therefore I believe the dealer has violated the terms of the warranty by charging me for this part when he performed the warranty repair.

    So I wrote a letter stating all of this and we'll see where it goes. The only other thing of note that came out of reading the warranty is all of the items that are not included in any warranty: Brake pads and rotors, ball joints, control cables, drive chains, belts, sprockets, heated hand grips....etc. If the wrong item went bad (like a ball joint in the front suspension) you could be sol for a lotta cash. It is a good idea to read this stuff, there are a few surprises in there, some of which may be avoidable.
    Laws are obviously different in USA then down here. You stated you "motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer ". Here you purchased a bike from a dealer not BMW NA. The warranty offered is the key but the contract is between you and the dealer ( or a dealer). your argument technically is with the dealer.
    Hope you sort it out to your satisfaction . Little things like this detract from overall enjoyment.
    best regards
    Paul
    regards
    Paul
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    BE KIND TO HUMANS... THEY BITE

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    That was not his belief, that was his determination, based on experience. He told me that anytime he has put in for "consumables" on a warranty order, they were denied. He's been with this dealer for several years.

    Personally, I think they should cover that cost if the warrantied failure forces new fluids to be needed. However, as a $ issue, it's not really big bucks, so it's not really worth getting too worked up over. jmho.
    While I realize this is fully a motorcycle forum , we are talking about BMW(& their warranty practices) & if you consider what it cost to replenish the coolant in a late model BMW car, it is not a trivial amount as the fluid is truly "liquid gold"! Now, back to bikes.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by pch123 View Post
    Laws are obviously different in USA then down here. You stated you "motorcycle purchased from BMW NA through a local dealer ". Here you purchased a bike from a dealer not BMW NA. The warranty offered is the key but the contract is between you and the dealer ( or a dealer). your argument technically is with the dealer.
    Hope you sort it out to your satisfaction . Little things like this detract from overall enjoyment.
    best regards
    Paul
    I agree, the warranty statement I have is issued by BMW NA and it says in the first sentence of the warranty that "BMW of North America, LLC (BMW NA) warrants...". It specifies later that to obtain warranty service you need to go to an authorized dealer, and the dealer performs the warranty services. I did purchase the bike from a dealer but the warranty promise is from the manufacturer, which makes them hard to distinguish between. I think of the dealer as a distributor, an agent for BMW NA. In any case that does not matter as far as my argument which is that the warranty is what I am going by and any other agreements between BMW and the dealer do not affect the existing warranty agreement between BMW NA, its authorized dealer agents and me. It does not matter to the warranty whether or how much BMW reimburses the dealer for warranty services, that's a a red herring. BMW can't issue you a warranty and then have the dealer undermine its terms.

    No worries, I enjoy all my bikes regardless, it doesn't affect that at all for me. Like they say in NJ, nothing personal, it's just business.
    Bill in Highlands Ranch, CO
    2012 R1200RT and some other older junk

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxthegreater View Post
    ............ It does not matter to the warranty whether or how much BMW reimburses the dealer for warranty services, that's a a red herring. BMW can't issue you a warranty and then have the dealer undermine its terms.

    .......
    That is true. BMW NA requires BMW dealers to follow terms of the warranty. Same terms any other OEM has however.

  7. #97
    Registered User ajaxthegreater's Avatar
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    Vindicated

    Got a call from Justin, the Service Manager at Foothills BMW today saying the tech had done a "poor job of communicating" with me and that they were sending me a check for the cost of the oil change. He didn't make any admissions beyond that and I was not in a probing mood, so I just accepted what he said. Case closed.

    So if you have had a warranty repair recently and been charged for consumables or other parts necessary to perform the repair I would suggest you try to recover your costs. The vehicle warranty says warranty repairs are to be made without charge for labor or parts. Most if not all fluids have part numbers, so I believe that makes them parts.

    I'd be happy to share my letter if you send me a private message. Thanks all.
    Bill in Highlands Ranch, CO
    2012 R1200RT and some other older junk

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajaxthegreater View Post
    ........... Most if not all fluids have part numbers, so I believe that makes them parts. ..........
    If I remember correctly oil uses a special part number for warranty purposes but I'm not positive.

  9. #99
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    Warranty rules

    Unfortunately, this issue is all too common in all vehicle warranties. I suspect the dealer was not reimbursed too much to change out a sight glass, as opposed to a full engine or transmission overhaul, that's why they did not just waive the oil fee.

    Also, the Governor (or at least his department of revenue) get's some of the blame. In Colorado, and in many other states, if the dealer does not "sell" consumables, then the dealer has to pay use tax on his cost for those items because the inventory exemption from sales tax only applies to items the dealer ultimately sells to his customer.

    I recently went through a frustrating experience with my new Triumph Bonneville when the transmission failed at under 2000 miles in the middle of no where. I had to rent a U-haul trailer, an F-150 to tow it, motel costs because it failed after hours and gas to travel the 450 miles to a dealer. The ultimate problem was the manufacturer's employee never installed the clip that holds the gears on the shaft and the gears migrated and the end one fell off. While I got a new transmission, Triumph will not reimburse me for my substantial out of pockets despite the fact this was pure negligence, not really a material failure.

    $35 seems like a helluva deal to me. I'm out over 10 times that number.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by pch123 View Post
    Here you purchased a bike from a dealer not BMW NA. The warranty offered is the key but the contract is between you and the dealer ( or a dealer). your argument technically is with the dealer.
    .
    best regards
    Paul
    Technically that would be very difficult to do in any country. While the dealer is the direct contact to the customer and is responsible for filing a warranty claim, the warranty of the vehicle is usually provided by the manufacturer. The main reason is reimbursement. Ultimately, in most cases, the cost of replacing a part under warranty is absorbed by the manufacturer of the part. A dealer would have absolutely no access to this supplier and administering it would be a nightmare.

    The wording in the US warranty is there to ensure that BMW has the possibility to refuse warranty work on a "grey import", a bike that was not officially brought into the country by BMW NA. Reason behind this is, that the manufacturer wants to ensure that the vehicle's original design was made for use in the specific environment. This is all semantics, mind you. But the people who put these agreements together and in place are lawyers, not enthusiasts.

  11. #101
    Registered User ajaxthegreater's Avatar
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    Wow...

    Quote Originally Posted by nhwstormin View Post
    Unfortunately, this issue is all too common in all vehicle warranties. I suspect the dealer was not reimbursed too much to change out a sight glass, as opposed to a full engine or transmission overhaul, that's why they did not just waive the oil fee.

    Also, the Governor (or at least his department of revenue) get's some of the blame. In Colorado, and in many other states, if the dealer does not "sell" consumables, then the dealer has to pay use tax on his cost for those items because the inventory exemption from sales tax only applies to items the dealer ultimately sells to his customer.

    I recently went through a frustrating experience with my new Triumph Bonneville when the transmission failed at under 2000 miles in the middle of no where. I had to rent a U-haul trailer, an F-150 to tow it, motel costs because it failed after hours and gas to travel the 450 miles to a dealer. The ultimate problem was the manufacturer's employee never installed the clip that holds the gears on the shaft and the gears migrated and the end one fell off. While I got a new transmission, Triumph will not reimburse me for my substantial out of pockets despite the fact this was pure negligence, not really a material failure.

    $35 seems like a helluva deal to me. I'm out over 10 times that number.
    Thanks nwh, but I am not following what you are saying here. The dealer does sell the oil retail. And like I said, the reimbursement relationship between the dealer and BMW NA does not matter to me, the point is that the dealer has no right to modify my warranty terms because of that.

    I think you are lucky you weren't injured or even killed because of the trans failure. A locked up wheel at interstate speeds is unimaginable to me and could have easily proved fatal for yourself and others if you were in a group of riders. I know incidental and consequential damages are not usually covered by warranties but if this was caused by negligence then that is a different matter. IMO you ought to talk to a lawyer about that.
    Bill in Highlands Ranch, CO
    2012 R1200RT and some other older junk

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhwstormin View Post
    Unfortunately, this issue is all too common in all vehicle warranties. I suspect the dealer was not reimbursed too much to change out a sight glass, as opposed to a full engine or transmission overhaul, that's why they did not just waive the oil fee.
    Almost guaranteed not. They (the dealer) doesn't understand the terms of the warranty and how to write it up properly in order to get reimbursed. BMW NA is a stickler on warranty's - do the paperwork wrong and you simply get paid the wrong amount (as long as it is in BMW's favor) or you don't get paid one thin dime.

    Quote Originally Posted by nhwstormin View Post
    Also, the Governor (or at least his department of revenue) get's some of the blame. In Colorado, and in many other states, if the dealer does not "sell" consumables, then the dealer has to pay use tax on his cost for those items because the inventory exemption from sales tax only applies to items the dealer ultimately sells to his customer.
    This doesn't pass the smell test. Are you positive? The oil was not used by the dealer; it was given to a customer at no charge. If you have a sale at zero dollars there is zero sales tax due. In effect, if I give a t-shirt to a customer in CO I have no revenue as there is no sale. The store is responsible for the Use Tax? Of course, I know zero about CO sales tax laws. So it's easy for me to open my mouth.

    Your statement is true for shop consumables used within the shop itself although oil would be an example where it may not apply. Example: take in a used bike that needs 1 quart of oil. You add the quart. There is no use tax as that oil now becomes a Cost of Goods Sold which effects your profitability and not your sales and/or use tax obligation.

    Time for the popcorn eating emotiocon (is that what it's called?) to appear.

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