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Thread: Which GPS to get?

  1. #31
    Registered User Emoto's Avatar
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    You can also just put in a start and a finish and let basecamp route it, then use the insert tool to shift the route over to roads you like. Escape gets out and ctl+z is undo. Takes some time to get the knack of it, but if you have your basecamp preferences set up to how you like them so that the way it calculates is pretty close to what you want, then run along it with the insert tool and stitch it down or move it to the roads you like. Until you get a feel for it, make a contrasting color route so you can spot deviations easily. If you can see both on your gps unit screen, so much the better, so you can find out just how much adding of via points it takes. The video tutorials are decent, too. This one is not bad: http://youtu.be/b9Q2U3McvjM There are also some big threads on using basecamp andgps's on ADVrider in the Laying Down Tracks subforum.
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  2. #32
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    But I take your point that it's hard but here's an idea: don't push out software that isn't functional. And there is no excuse for taking common functions that could be done with 2 or 3 clicks in Map Source and making them take 7 or 8 in Base Camp. A freshman in software engineering knows better than that.
    Did you ever hear of a little company by the name of MicroSoft??? They do that all the time. Vista was a good example. EVERY piece of software I have ever operated has its problems. (My staff and I use a GIS software package called ArcMAP, we have ten copies at $9K each, it has more bugs than the Amazon rain forest. It's pretty much the only game in town so we make it work) Emoto made a really good point, do you want to bitch about the software or make it do what you want/need it to do.

    Bottom line in this is that Garmin does claim wondrous things about the routing capabilities of its units. Those claims tend to be inaccurate if you take them at face value. You have to work to build good routes. It isn't plug and play like Garmin would like you to believe. I make Routes that WORK, period. I've already told you how. #1 use tracks to build exactly what you want. #2 examine and standardize what options you set (shortest distance, no uturns, etc). That goes for the unit too because it does a calc on load. #3 check the loaded route against BaseCamp for bogus points and routing in critical area. #4 always have the same map version in BaseCamp and in the unit. #5 use BaseCamp and get rid of MapSource if you are using maps that have been updated in the last year or two. #6 NEVER recalc after hitting "GO". If you want to build back road maps and don't do the things I mentioned above, stand by for disappointment. There WILL BE times when the lady in the box will try to send up an exit ramp and then down an on ramp when all you need to do is go straight. That is the map has bad data. That's life with maps. Since almost all GPS maps come from two sources, NavTech and Atlas, you will have problems from time to time. It ain't perfect but it ain't useless either.
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  3. 07-13-2013, 11:47 AM

  4. #33
    Registered User Emoto's Avatar
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    Which model GPS do you have?
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  5. #34
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Rock,
    You and I are on the same page. If I spend an hour making a route in BaseMap, what good does it do if it doesn't follow the exact path I defined on the ride. I was having the same issue IIRC two updates ago. I found that my unit had two map files on it in the SD card. Had to spend some time with Garmin support finding what files were supposed to be, delete everything and reload. IMO, the upgrade process is really fubar'ed. Prior to straightening out the problem, I would get to an area with multiple intersections and parallel roads and my route would shoot jaggies all over the place and usually just got lost. I have not gone on a long ride since going to BaseCamp, so I will be sure to check it out areas where I had problems in the past. I did see that in places like Wilksboro, NC and Oakhill, WV BaseMap wanted to create off the wall spaghetti lines which looked like bow ties, ran back on themselves and in general were a cluster of incorrect lines. I fixed them but I'm going to load them into my Zumo and see how it handles them during the load calc. On that subject, I don't see how Garmin could load a route without a calc of some kind. Programmatically it must have something like a gpx or dxf transfer file format or loading a route would take forever. If your routes recalc mid trip without your intervention, then you are absolutely right, Garmin has a serious flaw in their code.
    Rod

    PS - I just did routes through Oak Hill and Wilksboro. Both were made by using a start and stop point, then changing the route to go where I wanted it to go. I loaded them in my Zumo, it calculated them and they were exactly the same path in both the Zumo and BaseMap. I do have these areas in a planned route from SC to OH and that should be a good test. Was supposed to leave yesterday but I'm waiting for the monsoons to abate.
    Last edited by chewbacca; 07-13-2013 at 01:02 PM.
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  6. 07-13-2013, 02:00 PM

  7. 07-13-2013, 02:02 PM

  8. #35
    Registered User Emoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    Zumo 220.
    How old are your maps? Older maps used a different road segmenting method, so may produce weird results with routes made in newer software.

    You have auto re-calc turned off? tools > settings > navigation

    FWIW, I like to use Automotive mode and "faster time" as my navigation settings because I find it produces much more predictable results than motorcycle mode, which just seems to randomly add more roads into a route without thought. What mode are you using? Try it with both the GPS and BaseCamp in Automotive mode. Make sure the route has been recalculated at least one time in that mode.

    Tools > Settings > Map > Map Info (just to confirm that you really are building the route in the same version the gps has.)
    Eventual Master of the Obvious
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  9. 07-13-2013, 02:40 PM

  10. #36
    Unfunded content provider tommcgee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    2014.1 on both. And I learned to turn auto-recalc off during my first year of riding when I wasn't watching carefully, missed a turn, and it decided to re-route me on a dirt logging road over a mountain.
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  11. #37
    Registered User Emoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    2014.1 on both. And I learned to turn auto-recalc off during my first year of riding when I wasn't watching carefully, missed a turn, and it decided to re-route me on a dirt logging road over a mountain.
    Yeah, I had my share of that, too.

    So, Automotive mode and faster time (on both BaseCamp and GPS)?
    Eventual Master of the Obvious
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  12. #38
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMOTO View Post
    How old are your maps? Older maps used a different road segmenting method, so may produce weird results with routes made in newer software.
    This is also why you do not want to use MapSource anymore. Within a short time after the release of BaseCamp, they stopped updating MapSource.

    Rock, when I had the problem with different maps, I had to wipe things slick on both the SD and the unit. That isn't as simple as it may sound. I had to get a Garmin tech to explain what I had to do. It wasn't documented well, or at all. Something to keep in mind is that not all of their techs are top of the line either.
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  13. #39
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chewbacca View Post
    Rock, when I had the problem with different maps, I had to wipe things slick on both the SD and the unit. That isn't as simple as it may sound. I had to get a Garmin tech to explain what I had to do. It wasn't documented well, or at all. Something to keep in mind is that not all of their techs are top of the line either.
    Yup - 50% are average or below..

    I tend to leave auto-recalc on since I rather often divert from a calculated route, and want the GPS to think about how to go from where I am, not where I was supposed to be. To keep it "on-track" requires some planning beforehand. An example is the Blue Ridge Parkway, that I travel rather often for some reason (odd considering it starts 300 miles from me..)..

    In order to keep the auto-routing from taking me off the BRP and onto some local road it thinks is quicker (or shorter), I added in waypoints all along the length of the BRP. To make them useable - I found they have to be named something like "BRP01" "BRP02" "BRP3", etc.. in order and I make certain there is at least one of these waypoints between every entrance/exit of the Parkway.

    To make up a BRP route, I'll then enter my starting point off the Parkway, and add in all the BRP## waypoints for the length of the parkway I want to travel, then add in my desired end point (perhaps someplace to stop overnight.) I'll let Doofus calculate the route. Doing it this way I end up with successfully routing that can be used in MapSource, BaseCamp or on the GPS itself. They all will come up with the same route. That works, it's a tad tedious, but once the waypoints are made up, they can be saved and used with multiple routes, so it's only necessary to create them once.

    YMMV, but I doubt it..
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  14. 07-14-2013, 11:27 PM

  15. #40
    BruceRT
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    Tyre is better than Basecamp

    I grew frustrated with Basecamp before I could figure it out. I use Tyre instead. Check it out at http://www.tyretotravel.com/ It uses the Google Maps engine and makes itineraries and custom POI files. It's still not as straightforward as it could be but it's pretty good.
    Bruce
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  16. #41
    BruceRT
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    I so wish Tom Tom or something else was a viable alternative to Garmin.
    Maybe Tomtom is back in the game.

    http://www.tomtom.com/en_us/products.../tomtom-rider/
    Bruce
    2005 R1200RT (It's new to me!)
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    If you are not continuously learning, you are slowly getting bored.

  17. #42
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdimon View Post
    I grew frustrated with Basecamp before I could figure it out. I use Tyre instead. Check it out at http://www.tyretotravel.com/ It uses the Google Maps engine and makes itineraries and custom POI files. It's still not as straightforward as it could be but it's pretty good.
    A couple friends of mine use Tyre and they sent me a map a few weeks back. They both use the same model Nuvi set up exactly the same. They sent me a route that we were all to follow (they also sent me the track for the route) When I loaded the route in my Zumo, there were several places where the Zumo route deviated from where they were actually going. Upon return I checked the route against the track. The track followed the path my two friends used exactly. Bottom line is Tyre uses a different routing algorithm than Garmin uses in either their units or BaseCamp. I have a copy of Tyre now and could use it however I am getting the hang of BaseCamp. If you want to follow the exact path YOU want or the group wants you have to put more time into route creation and checking than most folks care to.

    On that SD card thing, IMO it wasn't just the fact that you had data split between internal and SD memory, it was that parts of older installs were left on the SD card.
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  18. 07-15-2013, 10:15 AM

  19. #43
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    Interesting idea but I have issues with Google Maps. As I mentioned earlier, there is a road near my house that many of my routes use that shows up on Google Maps but which the program will not allow me to draw a route on. I've encountered many instances where Google Maps shows unpaved roads as paved. And I find that it is difficult to design long routes with it.
    When you get an update from Garmin, it really doesn't mean that roads are updated. Restaurants, gas stations and other miscellaneous crap is updated in most cases and "some" roads. In some cases Google Maps may have more up to date info. In others they don't. As for paved versus unpaved, you can try to find DOT maps to check things but they are not the greatest either. The best bet is to get on AdvRider and ask the locals. For Spartanburg County SC my office has the absolute latest roads period. That's what 911 uses. We give them to the state once or twice a year and NavTech and Atlas get them from the state to put into Garmin updates.
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  20. 07-15-2013, 11:19 AM

  21. #44
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rockbottom View Post
    Unpaved roads in South Carolina (which is what I used to learn to drive on--as well as do a bootlegger's turn) are very different than unpaved ones in Pennsylvania and West Virginia.
    I was born in Ohio across the river from Wheeling. I also built the GIS for Centre County and ran central PA from the NY to MD lines, so I'm very familiar with what you speak. PA is the National Bureau of Standards model for bad roads. Poor to no road beds, off camber turns, and "God help you" 180 degree uphill switch backs. Then there is WV where some gravel roads are thought of as interstate highways. Gotta love WV though.
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  22. 07-15-2013, 12:50 PM

  23. #45
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    Hi Rock,
    MSTA is having an event at Little Swizerland just off the BRP near Spruce Pine, NC. They made about ten route maps. I processed them with both MapSource and BaseCamp. I even tried to make them crash by using two different map versions in MapSource and my Zumo. I couldn't get it to produce any extraneous points or jaggies. I did do a master reset of the Zumo and trashed some old stuff. Now the proof will come on Friday and Saturday when I actually run them. Learned a lot about BaseCamp. I am really getting to like it. I did find that you should make profiles under options so you can control your calculations better. You need to watch what you are doing too. That is make sure you have the right version and right settings or it will send you through the middle of town rather than a short interstate by-pass. At least in BaseCamp, once you get the hang of it, it is much easier to edit, at least IMO. I also believe you need to check how Mr Zumo calculates your route. Mine did just what BaseCamp sent but we'll see when I get it on the road.
    Rod

    PS - I've been using Garmins for about ten plus years. Their tech support has been fantastic with hardware related items. Software was pretty good too, until the last year or two. Their first line techs, if you want to call them that, are barely adequate now. It is difficult to get to the second line techs at all. Yesterday the tech went to a special in house FAQ database and it was obvious she didn't really know how the software operated. If you are not having issues with their latest and greatest gear, or your issue isn't directly related to updating or loading software, good luck on getting an answer.
    Last edited by chewbacca; 07-25-2013 at 10:56 AM.
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