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Thread: Clutch in or out on a swerve??

  1. #31
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    OK... Instructor hat on.

    We MSF Ridercoaches teach the swerve as two quick countersteer operations, with your torso upright. Let the bike roll around under you and do not try to lean with the bike as it will slow the roll rate. Separate the braking, if any, from the swerving simply because if you do the two quick countersteer maneuvers correctly you will be using essentially all the available traction getting the bike around the problem. If you attempt braking you will almost guarantee a low-side crash when a wheel locks up.

    If you attempt to pull in the clutch lever when doing this, you will destabilize the suspension of the motorcycle and probably end up hitting the object your are trying to avoid.

    A better survival plan is to keep enough space - the "space cushion" (a reactionary gap ) between yourself and anything in front of you so you do not have to execute a swerve as an emergency maneuver. No tailgating ever !, and keep your head on a swivel to avoid problems in the first place.

    While we are on the topic of swerving, how many of you actually practice that regularly ? It is one of three emergency maneuvers that are volatile skills that you will lose if not practiced.

    The other two are emergency stops straight ahead, and emergency stops in curves, both left and right.

    How many of you with ABS brakes actually know what they do on your bike ? Go out and do a few quick stops and see how the ABS reacts. You really need to know the capabilities.

    Please consider taking a MSF course as a refresher, Basic Ridercourse, Basic Ridercourse 2, or the new Advanced Rider Course. You will have a fun time doing the exercises, and might learn something. I have had many riders take refresher courses over the years and they all say they either learned something new, or corrected bad habits they had gotten into over time.

    The absolutely best feedback we receive is when former students come to visit us at class or see us on the road and tell us that something they learned in class saved a bad crash. That makes it worth all the blazing hot days we stand out on the range dodging motorcycles. That is priceless.

    Ride safe out there and remember: You are invisible and everyone is out to kill you. Act accordingly.
    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  2. #32
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    Enterprise - Would that be wet or dry?
    It is a well know fact that dilithium crystals are dry. At quantum level it probably does not matter anyway.

    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  3. #33
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    But the act of observing them changes their state...

    And Heisenberg was absolutely right.

    Even entropy isn't what it used to be...

  4. #34
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    we are offering some BRC2 classes (the intermediate course, what was previously the Experienced Rider Course) at the National this year. Stop by and watch the swerving! (and cornering. and braking. and more cornering. and more braking.) Better yet- join in the serious fun (because motorcycling is both bun, and serious), sign up for a class.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  5. #35
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Clutch fully released, steady throttle.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  6. #36
    Nickname: Droid
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    "Entropy aint what it used to be"

    Sounds like a quote from Yogi Beara's physicist brother.

    It's deja vu all over again!

  7. #37
    Just me rad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
    OK... Instructor hat on...................snip............................
    Your QAV is going to suffer here, you failed to set up the segment with the rationale.

  8. #38
    Registered User motorman587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    we are offering some BRC2 classes (the intermediate course, what was previously the Experienced Rider Course) at the National this year. Stop by and watch the swerving! (and cornering. and braking. and more cornering. and more braking.) Better yet- join in the serious fun (because motorcycling is both bun, and serious), sign up for a class.

    You all need to get up with the BMW Performance Center motorcycle instructors, they teach to disengage the clutch during the swerve, but at the National they will be teaching ERC, which teaches to keep the clutch engaged. hmmmmm?? Two different methods or a contradiction??? I teach/swerve with clutch engaged and focus on what I am swerving around................
    John
    2004 BMW R1150R Black
    Contact me 4 (1&1) training, Expert witness in motorcycle crash reconstruction

  9. #39
    Registered User AKsuited's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
    The absolutely best feedback we receive is when former students come to visit us at class or see us on the road and tell us that something they learned in class saved a bad crash. That makes it worth all the blazing hot days we stand out on the range dodging motorcycles. That is priceless.
    Okay, here's mine: I look over my left shoulder on an Interstate. I look forward only to see that the road has curved to the left and I am headed towards the guardrail (not good). Without having to think, I press left, go left, and regain control of my motorcycle. I learned countersteering in the MSF BRC years ago. In another incident, I was looking to the left to see how high the water was in a near flood. The road curved right: I pushed right, went right in order to regain control and avoid riding into the median at 70 mph, which would have probably wrecked the bike and spoiled the trip I was on, and possibly put me in the hosptital for weeks. What I am getting it is, thank you MSF instructors, you are doing good!
    Ride safe out there and remember: You are invisible and everyone is out to kill you. Act accordingly.
    Act accordingly: wear something visible like a white helmet and/or hi-viz to be easily spotted, and engage your best defensive driving skills as well.

    Harry
    2003 R1150RT - Silver

  10. #40
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    Your QAV is going to suffer here, you failed to set up the segment with the rationale.
    Yep... but I read the card !
    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  11. #41
    Nickname: Droid
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    I guess to each their own, clutch-in vs. clutch-out. I simply see no benefit in pulling in the clutch, and feel it actually diverts brain power from the essential task. Also, what about actions after completing the swerve? What if you need to be on power again? Time/brain power lost again. To me, since time used/wasted in an evasive manuever is SO critical to survival, keep the actions and brain power to a minimum.

    My first ever crash (my fault) was when I nailed a left turning Chrysler in the RH corner of the bumper with my left fork leg on my Honda CB350F. I wasn't paying attention, in the left lane, centered in the lane. Looked up, Chrysler stopped, left blinker on. CRAP!!! I had no training at that point in time (though I had been playing with swerving between the dashed line marks on back roads), but my initial action was a HARD swerve to the right, into the clear RH lane. Not sure I even thought about doing it. Woulda easily cleared the Chrysler, but my brain suddenly overloaded, CLAMPED on the front brake and I slid hard into the car bumper. Over the bike I went, landed on my chest, never hit my head (FF helmet even back in 74) big gash in my leg, bruises all over. All my fault, got and accepted the ticket. Rode the bike home, like a shopping cart with TWO bad wheels. Found out later I nearly sheared off the steering head stem.

  12. #42
    Mars needs women! 35634's Avatar
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    mmmmm, having grandma for dinner!
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  13. #43
    advrider.com
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    When in doubt, ring it out.

    Throttle, that is.

  14. #44
    Registered User motorman587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35634 View Post
    mmmmm, having grandma for dinner!
    Huh?? What has that do with this topic??
    John
    2004 BMW R1150R Black
    Contact me 4 (1&1) training, Expert witness in motorcycle crash reconstruction

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