View Poll Results: Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?

Voters
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  • I would LIKE the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects.

    58 39.73%
  • I would NOT like the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects

    88 60.27%
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Thread: Please vote if you think the MOA should have a more proactive stance with BMW NA

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyhill View Post
    Amazing how 1 inept person who couldn't handle his own problem is starting threads over and over and actually getting a couple of guys to back him up.
    A waste of time and I'm shocked that the mods don't delete this useless crap.


    I think some of you that fuzzed about this/these threads(that your reading anyway ) should visit the exciting topic of "Word Association" over in Campfire for even more excitement?
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by kewlmoose View Post
    I never said anything about dealers, their relationship with their customers, profits or my personal happiness. Please troll someone else.
    Struck a nerve did I?

  3. #33
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Please keep this to a civil discussion. If necessary, the moderators may be forced to shut this down, which will answer the poll question once and for all.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyhill View Post
    Amazing how 1 inept person who couldn't handle his own problem is starting threads over and over and actually getting a couple of guys to back him up.
    A waste of time and I'm shocked that the mods don't delete this useless crap.
    I had a customer with this identical problem. BMW advised customer they would goodwill one time and after that he was on his own. I do think Randy waited far too long but I still have empathy for him. Maybe I've been on the losing end of too many BMW decisions that just didn't seem right. The general public knows only the tip of the iceberg.

  5. #35
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Good point Marty. Did all the defective final drive owners get their problem fixed?

    Quote Originally Posted by martyhill View Post
    Amazing how 1 inept person who couldn't handle his own problem is starting threads over and over and actually getting a couple of guys to back him up.
    A waste of time and I'm shocked that the mods don't delete this useless crap.
    That is the whole point Marty An individual asking for BMW NA to admit that they put out a defective product such as the final drives, is a difficult job.

    But when a group of 500 riders or a membership of 40,000 brings it up to BMW NA maybe something with be done about it or maybe not. But a large group with supporting data has a much better chance than one lone guy trying to get BMW or any organization to admit possible fault.

  6. #36
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Leaders are suppose to lead. As in Les Mis, "Where are the leaders of the land"

    From what I have observed, and this just my opinion and I could very well be wrong.

    1. It appears that the MOA leadership would love for this topic to go away. I asked for the leadership to put up this poll and got no response. It would have been much better if they would have taken point on this, but they decided not to.

    2. Elected leaders are suppose to lead. So let see some leadership on this matter. If the members do not want a strong advocate then that is fine, at least the idea was tested.

    3. At the very least, why would the leadership not want to put up a page on the website directing members to the best way to contact BMW NA directly at the corporate level. I don't mean the 1-800 customer service reps. I don't see any reason why having better contact information would be a bad thing. It would be nice to have the regional service reps name and contact information. How many times have the members had an ongoing issue and asked the dealer to put them in touch with the regional service rep but were told that the members can not speak to them directly? On the other hand some members are probably know how to contact their regional service reps and it would be nice if we all did.

    4. It appears to me that the poll is going to end up around 50/50. Which means the advocate roll will probably die, and that is fine if that is what the members want.

    5. I wonder if there is any reason why the MOA leadership does not want to go up against BMW NA with issues of defects and other pressing issues? Just asking!

    6. If the MOA leadership does not at least put up an easy to find link with all the direct contact information to the decision makers at BMW NA then it make me wonder why they would not make this public. There is no cost involved and it would help many of the members possibly get their issues handled in a much quicker manner. All the leaders would have to do is put up a sticky post asking members to submit any direct contact information to BMW NA management that they have. Within a few weeks we would have tons of information.

    7. Speaking of information, I think members posting information concerning their successes and failures in getting repeated problems repaired and if BMW NA or the dealer picked up the cost. I bet a lot of riders had their final drives repaired for free and a lot had to pay for the repairs out of their own pocket.

    I was surprised by the number of members that did not realize that when a BMW dealer install a new part, that there is a 2 year parts and labor warranty and if that part fails again in 2 years and is repaired by the dealer, the warranty starts all over again.

    Thanks

  7. #37
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    Your reply suggests a lack of understanding on how issues are presented and approved by the BOD.

    Greg's previous response gave you all the information you needed. You chose to ignore it. The results speak for themselves.

    Continuing to berate the officers and BOD members will do little to help your cause.

    As for me, I'm riding to NC tomorrow.
    I used to post here, but now I don't.

  8. #38
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    Randy -

    I, too, think you haven't been really paying attention. And surely, your indepth personal conversation with Greg should have answered pretty much all your questions you stated in the post above. I don't really see the need for this to continue to be stated and restated. The poll is running and that should tell you what you wanted to know. That is what the purpose of this thread was about...letting the members speak.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  9. #39
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Good point 20774. As I said earlier. Greg is super nice and more than capable.

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Randy -

    I, too, think you haven't been really paying attention. And surely, your indepth personal conversation with Greg should have answered pretty much all your questions you stated in the post above. I don't really see the need for this to continue to be stated and restated. The poll is running and that should tell you what you wanted to know. That is what the purpose of this thread was about...letting the members speak.
    I enjoyed my conversation with Greg and really appreciate him taking the time to talk to me. I did not mean to belittle or offend just bringing up some polite points.

    I just posted this reply to Don Deilenberger concerning his poll on the fuel strips. So I will paste a copy here. This is an example of the exact type of leadership the I would like the MOA to take on. By doing this fuel strip poll Don is gathering information about known problems with specific bike and getting an idea of what percentage of the riders are experiencing this same problem. Also the members are posting their successes and failures in dealing with the dealer and BMW NA. They are also posting solutions that they have discovered. I suggest going one step more by having someone compile the data and summarize the comments and make that public to the members and present the results to BMW NA.

    This is the link to Don's poll on the hexhead forum: http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthre...uel-strip-poll

    Don, I really appreciate you putting the poll up to uncover the % of possible defects

    Looks like a pretty high percentage are having fuel strip failures. Thanks for bringing this subject up for the members to talk about.

    This is an example of where an MOA advocate could compile the data and summarize the comments and present the results to the members and just as importantly to the leaders at BMW NA.

    It is hard for BMW NA to say there is not a problem when they are presented with this data. Looks like there is great interest in this type of poll. You have over 11,000 views and 187 replies and 378 members voting. This is one of the highest viewed threads other than post a picture. If there is this much interest in viewing and replying to the fuel strip "defect" then I bet there would be great interest in any kind of possible defect.

    Which is another way of saying that there is a need for members to express themselves about possible defects. Members are interested in if other members are having this same problem as they are. I know that if I was having a fuel strip issue that I would print the chart off and carry it down to my dealer and also send a copy to BMW NA asking for my repair to be covered and for BMW NA to admit that there is a problem.

    But on the other hand, if one rider complains to their local dealer, the dealer or regional service rep about the fuel strip then BMW can come up with some kind of excuse and tell the rider that it is a rare case, not part of a pattern of defects.

    Thanks again and I would appreciate it if you would bring this polling the members for possible defects idea up to the other moderators and get there thoughts. I think that it would provide a good clearinghouse of information. You could add another tab maybe titled "Reported failures" or "Possible Defects" or something like that.

    Thanks for being a moderator.

  10. #40
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    Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

    My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

    Can we vote on this?
    MOA #46783
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  11. #41
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Point well made Dan, and who like paying $5 for a coke that is 70% .

    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Would it be possible to use what "finally" happens here as a model for my interactions with: American Honda, Harley Davidson, Walmart, GM, Lowe's, Home Depot, Sears, Yamaha, my dentist, Kroger's, my urologist, local movie theater, Tire Barn, Macy's, Fred's Bait Shop, IRS, NSA, NASA,...and this list goes on....who have not handled specific situations, as I thought proper, at one time or another in the past? I need a "large" group of people to pressure these folks and others to resolve issues in a more favorable manner, to my benefit. Heck, I'd even pay extra to get this "group" machine up and running.

    My first compliant would be against the local movie theater whose popcorn is way too salty....AND THEY KNOW IT! I've asked for numbers on how many people have complained about this, but they will not share it...I know they keep track. At $6.00 a "pop" this isn't right.

    Can we vote on this?
    Yep that would be a lot of companies to take on. Better do it one at a time.

  12. #42
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    Once you organize and start advocating FOR something, it will alienate "the other party", IOW- BMW corporate.
    I am not interested in THIS CLUB to advocate FOR me, AGAINST BMW.
    I do not want an US against THEM relationship with the brand.
    I would like to keep this club the way it is, and have access to info and events from BMW corporate.

    There are several other venues for someone who feels wronged to address that feeling and take action in those venues.

    Who would decide what to advocate for and whom to advocate for? I can see any number of problems with people looking to get their out of warranty bike fixed for free because they feel something should not have broken in the first place.
    "Yes, my bike is 14 years old, but it only has 3,400 miles on it and I should be compensated."

    It would also only be a matter of time before lawyers get involved, and where is the money for the MOA lawyers to come from? Our dues and the MOA fundraising. Both terrible ways to waste our money.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyhill View Post
    Amazing how 1 inept person who couldn't handle his own problem is starting threads over and over and actually getting a couple of guys to back him up.
    A waste of time and I'm shocked that the mods don't delete this useless crap.
    Agree completely. He wasted too much time, the problem ran it's course and NOW he wants others to fight his battle that he let die in the first place.

    I think I'll not pay my mortgage for a year or so, and well after the bank sends me notices and decides to foreclose I'll ask you to advocate and call the bank on my behalf.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    And people that may have a problem affording an attorney are to do what?
    You do not need an attorney to go to small claims court. The judge will also ensure your rights are not trampled by someone else's attorney.

    You also do not need an attorney to file or proceed in any state's Lemon Law venue.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kewlmoose View Post
    I vote no. The MOA is a social club bringing together people with an interest / passion for the BMW marque .

    Ffffffprrrl.... I don't need a nationwide "social club" bringing me together with people of the same interest. I do that locally much more efficient.
    I would like to see an "Owners Association" as something true to its name. An association that has the interest of the owners at heart and represents them.

    As I said elsewhere: If you guys think that it is good enough for the MOA to be about a magazine with articles of little relevance for the common motorcycler, a platform for people to brag about their annual mileage accumulation and an institution for a few to satisfy their need to officiate, the MOA is not for me. Just beacuse of this, regardless of the issues of the op and the amounts of other threads he started, I voted. You may know how.

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