View Poll Results: Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?

Voters
146. You may not vote on this poll
  • I would LIKE the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects.

    58 39.73%
  • I would NOT like the MOA to be an advocate for its members concerning possible manufacture defects

    88 60.27%
Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 5 6 7 8 LastLast
Results 91 to 105 of 112

Thread: Please vote if you think the MOA should have a more proactive stance with BMW NA

  1. #91
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    12,896
    Quote Originally Posted by espressoforyou View Post
    We would appreciate your help in finding a way to move this concept into fruition. Maybe you could ask the members to submit examples of pdf forms that could be used to gather the information.
    Currently the majority of poll voters don't want the MOA to take a formal stance or advocate against the manufacturer beyond what we currently have. It's been written several times that we have something of a liaison and Greg has also provided a path to presenting an concept or initiative to the Board. I might be misreading things, but it seems like that is where all of this should be headed.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  2. #92
    Registered User motorman587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    184
    I voted no. Hire a lawyer.............
    John
    2004 BMW R1150R Black
    Contact me 4 (1&1) training, Expert witness in motorcycle crash reconstruction

  3. #93
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Scranton, Pa.
    Posts
    197

    FACT: The BMW Car Club has Advocates and we should too

    As a long time BMW CCA member, the car club has within it an advocate who will go to bat for the customer with BMWNA. For some misguided reason, some of the MOA have the idea that BMWNA is a shrine which can never be questioned even when they are full of BS. As for me, i'm not buying that line of crap. Good business ethics should damn well be on the agenda of the club and we should have the courage to go nose to nose with BMW if they are not treating one of our members fairly. As I learned in Viet Nam, If you don't take care of those in your unit, what good are you?

  4. #94
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern New Jersey
    Posts
    639
    Why do you call us misguided? We're not dealing with hard facts, but with member's wishes and opinions, hence, everyone's opinion is valid for them. If someone doesn't want us to take a combative posture with BMW, that's fine, as is your own misguided statement.

  5. #95
    Registered User mpmarty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Camas Valley Oregon
    Posts
    1,054
    Sorry I think Mr 3hawks is not misguided in the least. If the MOA had any huevos it would stand on its hind legs and ROAR back at the NA. Again, just my opinion.
    Marty - in the western Oregon mountains.'06RT, (gone '04RT, '86 Venture Royal, '81 Yamaha Virago920, '82Suzuki GS1100GK, '76 Suzuki GT750, Triumph 750 Bonneville, BSA Road Rocket 650, 61" Harley knucklehead)

  6. #96
    BMW Rider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by ClassicVW View Post
    Why do you call us misguided? We're not dealing with hard facts, but with member's wishes and opinions, hence, everyone's opinion is valid for them. If someone doesn't want us to take a combative posture with BMW, that's fine, as is your own misguided statement.
    If I can add my 2 cents: if there is a legitimate issue why do you feel it is the MOA taking a combative stance? Why wouldn't it be NA if it is a legitimate product issue? I think you're putting the blame on the wrong shoulders.

    I think this gentleman actually makes a great deal of sense.

  7. #97
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    10,531
    Quote Originally Posted by will3hawks View Post
    As a long time BMW CCA member, the car club has within it an advocate who will go to bat for the customer with BMWNA. ...sniped
    I have been trying to learn more about what the BMW CCA person actually does. In the literature I have read the position is described as "Ombudsmen to help with dealer issues." Now that may put them in a position to go to bat with BMW NA, I don't know at this time.

    I am asking for purely for information and clarification. Can someone put some actual information about what the BMW CCA Ombudsman's role is in reality or point me in the direction of literature source or person?
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  8. #98
    Survivor akbeemer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Land of the Big Sky
    Posts
    3,845
    Quote Originally Posted by motorman587 View Post
    I voted no. Hire a lawyer.............
    +1

    It won't work in my opinion, because there is no incentive, carrot or stick, for BMWNA to deal with the MOA on these issues. Want to play hardball? Just imagine the actions BMWNA could take to hurt the MOA if they so desired.
    Kevin Huddy
    Intrepid Incompetent
    Tm Pterodactyl MT Outpost

  9. #99
    BMW Rider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    I have been trying to learn more about what the BMW CCA person actually does. In the literature I have read the position is described as "Ombudsmen to help with dealer issues." Now that may put them in a position to go to bat with BMW NA, I don't know at this time.

    I am asking for purely for information and clarification. Can someone put some actual information about what the BMW CCA Ombudsman's role is in reality or point me in the direction of literature source or person?
    Mika, as you may be aware I have been a strong supporter of advocacy. Having said this the fact that advocacy lost so big what's the point of looking for information? It is obvious the club has no interest in this type of thing. Whether I think it is totally valid or not is immaterial, the facts are it lost by a substantial margin.

    The very statement someone made about not wanting to get involved in a combative stance says it all. For some reason we are deemed combative even if the issue is legitimate. Members really need to look at this statement and determine how much sense it makes. I'm the first to admit it is incomprehensible to me why BMW wouldn't look combative but obviously that point of view has little support. Time to stop beating a dead horse.

  10. #100
    BMW Rider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    +1

    It won't work in my opinion, because there is no incentive, carrot or stick, for BMWNA to deal with the MOA on these issues. Want to play hardball? Just imagine the actions BMWNA could take to hurt the MOA if they so desired.
    What the heck could BMW do? Take us to court? Please, stop this utter nonsense. This statement is crazy. We, let me repeat that, we are the customer, not BMW NA. The sooner you realize that the sooner action will be taken. Until then any poor soul is at the mercy of these clowns. Damn, this statement makes me angry. We, we, we are the customer, not the opposite!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wake up and smell the roses!!!!!!!!!

  11. #101
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    5

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by natrab View Post
    Where can we vote for you to stop making threads?
    + 1

  12. #102
    BMW Rider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by akbeemer View Post
    +1

    It won't work in my opinion, because there is no incentive, carrot or stick, for BMWNA to deal with the MOA on these issues. Want to play hardball? Just imagine the actions BMWNA could take to hurt the MOA if they so desired.
    You don't have to believe me but with 3 decades in this business and having worked with approximately 15 OEM's through the years I just might have a little bit of insight with these guys. Literally having a regional rep tell me he doesn't care what I think AFTER having caught him in an out and out lie says it all. They truly don't care because NO ONE is willing to stand up against them. Individuals don't mean crap to these guys! Learn to have empathy with others who have legitimate problems. Real problems they can't get addressed. This is a company that ignored federal recall procedures 15 out of 16 times and 15 were motorcycles. Think about that please. Think about what is right and not what BMW will do to the MOA. Do what is right. Stick up for those truly in need of support. Real problems, real people, have empathy and try to get help for those in need. You may be one of them someday. Don't believe me. Speak with others who have worked with BMW on hundreds of issues over the course of time. See what they have to say before you're so quick in worrying about BMW. Get a dealer principle to speak off the record. It just may be an eye opener.

    I have repeatedly praised their product many, many times. I have even stood up for them when it was obvious a customer was going overboard and not giving them the opportunity to correct the problem. I have also criticized them when it has been appropriate. I have presented a fair and balanced story from both sides of the fence. Are we not allowed to present 2 sides to the story without fear of retribution? Is that the BMW you've come to know and love? One thing you personally don't know with certainty is how honest I am being other than me telling you. I don't expect anyone to believe me just because my lips are moving. I do expect intelligent people to do the appropriate research into what I'm saying. You might be surprised as to what you learn. I do expect other BMW riders in a BMW owners group to have empathy for their fellow riders when justified. Not for every nickel and dime or couple hundred dollar problem that exists. But real problems that go well beyond anticipated rates of failure. Think a 6-cylinder that smokes worse than a 2-stroke. Could the customer have done something to cause that. Of course! But what if he didn't? What if it was your bike? I do expect others to give possible consideration to someone with 30 years experience who has presented a two-sided story from the moment I joined MOA. I don't present garbage and in fact have supported some of the statements with stories from the Wall Street Journal. If what I'm saying is correct every member of this organization should be filled with righteous anger.

    Believe it or not you can still enjoy riding your BMW! I do. I love my bike and I put thousands of trouble free miles on it. I love RT's; think their one of the best bikes on the planet. But please have empathy for your fellow riders that need help in the form of serious numbers of people. NA is not going to crack over individuals. We have the means to amass thousands through this group. But if no one cares nothing will get done for many of these people. Someone needs to be on the side of people with legitimate problems where failures are much higher than anticipated. That someone should be us.

    And then come back to me and let's talk.

  13. #103
    OldBMWMaster JDOCKERY132445's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Pleasure Island. NC
    Posts
    940

    Big boy

    I am a big boy and can fight my own battles. I have yet to lose against a supplier of a defective product and that includes GM, BMW, VW, Volvo, Mercedes and Ford.
    Jerry Dockery
    309 N. 3rd. Ave.
    Kure Beach, NC 28449
    1996 R1100RT main bike & 1985 K100RS...too fast to believe.

  14. #104
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Central PA
    Posts
    1,642
    Quote Originally Posted by mika View Post
    I have been trying to learn more about what the BMW CCA person actually does. In the literature I have read the position is described as "Ombudsmen to help with dealer issues." Now that may put them in a position to go to bat with BMW NA, I don't know at this time.

    I am asking for purely for information and clarification. Can someone put some actual information about what the BMW CCA Ombudsman's role is in reality or point me in the direction of literature source or person?
    The BMWCCA website should offer a contact email application at http://www.bmwcca.org/contactform
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  15. #105
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    10,531
    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Mika, as you may be aware I have been a strong supporter of advocacy. Having said this the fact that advocacy lost so big what's the point of looking for information?...snip

    The very statement someone made about not wanting to get involved in a combative stance says it all. For some reason we are deemed combative even if the issue is legitimate. Members really need to look at this statement and determine how much sense it makes. ...snip
    To the first underlined question: purely my personal edification and understanding. It is not all about you or the argument you are engaged in. People have commented on the CCA's ombudsman. I am curious and want to learn more for myself. I do that very often around here and elsewhere.

    To the second underlined point: You offered no answer to my posted question. Rather, you argue with me and used the remainder of your post, and several others, to launch a diatribes on those you don't agree with, then ask us to reflect how much sense it makes to think of you and some of your allies as combative? Really?
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •