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Thread: R60/5 Shakeout: Won't Shut Off

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    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    R60/5 Shakeout: Won't Shut Off

    I posted yesterday about having success in synchronizing the carbs.

    Also posted about the (a) starter switch being intermittent - glad there's a kick starter on this bike! Photorider suggested cleaning the starter relay under the tank and just as soon as I burn off the full tank, I'll get to it.

    Today, when returning from a ride (she's running nice), when I (b) pulled the key up to shut her down, she kept running!!!

    I'd been playing with the carbs and had the shorting spokes attached to the plug wires, so I just shorted out one cylinder and she quit - and the instrument lights went off as well.

    Starting to wonder if there's a connection between (a) & (b) or maybe the switch is kaput. Any experience in this area, appreciated.
    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    I would think it goes back to the headlight bucket work...something has just now moved to create the problem. Actually, you have the nail for the key, right? My guess is that when the key is pulled, the parts that are supposed to connect/disconnect within the switch at the top of the bucket aren't doing what they're supposed to.

    Let's all wait for Lew to provide the answer.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    I would think it goes back to the headlight bucket work...something has just now moved to create the problem. Actually, you have the nail for the key, right? My guess is that when the key is pulled, the parts that are supposed to connect/disconnect within the switch at the top of the bucket aren't doing what they're supposed to.

    Let's all wait for Lew to provide the answer.
    Thanks, Kurt - while we're waiting for Lew, how come when I killed the motor the instrument lights went out - could this tie into a bad relay or is the relay only used for starting? Or maybe it isn't opening and closing?
    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

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    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Are instrument lights working at all? If you put the key back in without starting, do they come on? I'm not sure why the lights when out when the engine died during shorting...might just be a coincidence.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

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    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    Are instrument lights working at all? If you put the key back in without starting, do they come on? I'm not sure why the lights when out when the engine died during shorting...might just be a coincidence.
    Instrument lights are working and if I went to re-start the bike right now, she'd turn over. I read a thread here: http://forum.boxerworks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4740

    Seems to be more like an intermittent situation - possibly switch is kaput and possible relay is on the blink too.

    It was suggested to spray contact cleaner at contact points where nail key makes contact with the brass plates - they could be dirty - a new unit is very pricey like @ $200 - don't want to go there.

    Overall, very pleased with the progress I've made and for the help I've received right here.
    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

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    /5 runs when shut off

    I had the same problem. Turns out it was in the starter switch. It was making the ignition circuit through one of the other circuits in the switch. New switch, problem solved. I can't explain why or how, but I know there was a current leak because, even with the ignition was off, there was enough of a drain to kill the battery in a couple of days.

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    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FELAW View Post
    I had the same problem. Turns out it was in the starter switch. It was making the ignition circuit through one of the other circuits in the switch. New switch, problem solved. I can't explain why or how, but I know there was a current leak because, even with the ignition was off, there was enough of a drain to kill the battery in a couple of days.
    Starter switch, as in switch nail key goes into?
    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

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    I had the same problem in an '84 R100. It was a relay. Hopefully, the /5 electrical system is less complex. It took me an hour or more tracing the current path on the diagram to figure out which relay to change (after putting in a new key switch that failed to solve the problem).
    61 Gold Star, 76 R90S, 03 CBR600RR, '14 Street Triple R

  9. #9
    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    If it comes down to replacing the ignition switch, I like this idea - an updated switch sold by Rocky Point Cycle and the link below shows how this clever individual was able to utilize the beetle nail key:

    http://beemersandbits.com/2011/05/bm...-key-retrofit/

    If it comes down to needing a new starter relay, wondering if any alternatives available from a Napa or O'Reilly auto parts store - BMW wants a LOT $$$ for their relay.

    Will sight tight until Lew weighs in . . .
    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

  10. #10
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    The other relays can be made to work, but you have to tie wires together in order to get them to work right. In some case, IIRC you may lose some functionality, although I don't think that would be the case with the /5. Personally, I'd get the OEM part if it came to it. Keep the old as a spare.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  11. #11
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    Hey Campers! I started a new job last week and it's been 2 hours per day of OT since I started.

    Has this reoccurred Ken?

    I'm with Kurt with the "keep the OEM main switch". It's a simple device and totally serviceable if not a bit archaic in it's design.... The contact spring strips ( running up the center of the photo) tend to lose some of their resiliency over time and your might have deformed enough to retain contact. The upper one, in the photo, connects to "15" on the board (upper left hand corner of the photo (you can just see the green wire)) which runs directly to the coils and the instrument lights.. This is the "bottom" side of the switch so you might be able to visually check it. If this contact is not springing back when the nail is pulled the coils remain live. With some luck you'll be able to "reform" the contact strip with a pair of needle nose pliers (disconnect battery first!).

    The red arrow is pointing to one of the four bend-over tabs that hold the switch into the head light nacelle (the really archaic part of the design (why BMW didn't retain the switch with screws eludes me). If you decide to pull the switch you will need to proceed carefully... if more than one of the tabs break off... well.... you don't want more than one to break off. If they do you'll be looking to convert to another switch.



    Motorrad Electrik sells a replacement relay for $10 BUT IT HAS NO STARTER INTERRUPT CIRCUIT. -> http://www.motoelekt.com/chassis.htm
    Last edited by lmo1131; 06-10-2013 at 12:18 AM.
    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden

    Lew Morris
    1973 R75/5 - original owner

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    /5 wont shut off

    I guess I wasn't thinking: what I called the switch was actually the starter button assembly. I tried fixing it and that's a whole different horror story, but in the end a new button wired in, fixed the run on and the battery drain.

  13. #13
    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    Relay was very dirty

    Shame on me for not attending to this when I had the bike apart this winter - the connectors were all corroded and oxidized - used contact cleaner & my small wire wheel on the dremel to clean the terminals.

    Pried open the cover and gently cleaned up the connections there with contact cleaner and several Q-tips - there was a nice pile of dirt at the bottom of the relay cover that I dumped in the trash.

    Used rubbing alcohol to clean the wires. The last thing I did was apply heat sink paste to all the terminals before re-attaching the wires.

    Will attend to inspecting ignition mechanism later this week. Thanks for your help!
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    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

  14. #14
    Registered User kentuvman's Avatar
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    All Cleaned Up

    She's all cleaned up now.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Ken Tuvman
    Excelsior, MN
    K75s, R65LS, R60/5

  15. #15
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    Duane Ausherman has a good write up on the main switch. -> http://w6rec.com/duane/bmw/ignkeys/

    this is the front view of the switch in the "OFF" position



    this is the switch in the "On" position - hard to see due to lighting



    If the contacts are touching when the key is out check to see if the light contact spring(s) have gotten bent. It happens. More often than not it is the heavy brass contact that is bent; open, or close, the gap (between the light spring contact and the heavy brass one) by carefully bending it. It's definitely a trial-and-error operation.



    Photos (that I altered) are from Duane Ausherman's site
    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden

    Lew Morris
    1973 R75/5 - original owner

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