Results 1 to 15 of 16

Thread: 98 R1100R Two Mode running

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    RD'nNH&AZ rdhudson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Summer in Lakes Region of NH and winter in the Sonoran Desert of AZ
    Posts
    138

    98 R1100R Two Mode running

    I have posted on this bike before. My new to me R1100R starts fine, runs a minute to 4 minutes then cr@ps out, by that I mean it goes into a mode where it emits smoke, soots the plugs, drops out ignition completely, then surges forward when throttle is opened. It may stop this and run good for 10 minutes then it returns, it is not rideable. The change in ride-ability is like a switch being thrown.
    I have had suggestions: Oil temp sensor failure (no- Thanks rxcrider for the loaner), sync (no -spot on), valve adj (no -spot on), not fuel filter (replaced), not bad gas (removed and rinsed out), not hoses, not injectors, not hall sensors, not timing, not wiring (visual inspection and wiggle test), probably not wiring connectors (unplugged and replugged), new spark plugs, clean air filter and not anything two separately working former BMW master techs can find. BTW both have donated their time as they can't get it going, but I am gifting them a reward for effort.
    Tuesday it goes into the local BMW dealer. The service manager asked if I had done a leak down test! I doubt this is the reason as when it runs it is strong, smooth, and accelerates like a gazelle in front of a lion. I guess I have to let them do one at $85/hr. I hope their diagnostic machine can find the problem.
    Untested is the Engine Management Unit and the Throttle Position Sensor. I have both coming via ebay ($69 and $40- wow so cheap!) as the combined price new is $1600 (MaxBMW fiche). It looks like the EMU is an easy swop out, but the TPS would need to be set with the diagnostic machine and it will be in the shop anyway.
    Could the Evaporative Emissions canister be the cause of this? I have read the Canisterectomy postings on .ADV forums and I am considering removal as I am desperate. I'll probably wait until the dealer has a go.
    The bike is at one of the former tech's shop now. I haven't checked: grounding suggestion. It only has 6K on it and nothing outside of the bike looks even remotely warn, no chafed wires, no scuffs, no corrosion, it seems perfect.
    I even called the 2nd owner and introduced myself to ask about its rid-ability in the past (it got a great review).
    Anyone been through anything like this? What does the dealer's diagnostic machine tell? What am I missing here?
    Ralph
    2002 F650GS, 1998 R1100R 75th anniversary edition, 1983 R80RT (just sold), 1959 R60 (in restoration), Honda CT90
    If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.

  2. #2
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    1,284
    If your canister were loaded with fuel, when the Motronic opened the solenoid so that the engine could breath in the collected vapors, it would suck in a load of gasoline. This happened to me when my in-tank vent hoses started leaking. It was so bad that the engine stopped.

    A very easy way to check this is to remove the connector from the solenoid which is on the frame, left-hand side, just below the seat. You can't miss it. It has to 1/4" hoses and a two-wire fuel-injector-like connector.

  3. #3
    BMW Rider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    750
    You didn't mention the fuel pump. When the engine stops running turn the key off. Then listen for the fuel pump when you turn the key back on. If you do not hear the fuel pump at the very least you have a fuel pump-related issue. If you do hear the fuel pump when you turn the key back on will it start at that point? I assume so based on your comments.

    As to the surging when you say it is surging forward are you stating the engine picks up rpm? A fuel pump that begins to starve for fuel will typically lean out and you will get an increase in engine rpm. Has the bike sat for any length of time with fuel in it? This is a fairly common scenario in a fuel pump failure and I'm guessing here but it's probably fair to say I've seen dozens of BMW fuel pumps replaced over the course of time. Not saying this is the issue but am saying verify fuel pump condition should be included in your diagnostic path given all the other items you have checked out. Considerably more so if the bike has sat with fuel in it.

  4. #4
    RD'nNH&AZ rdhudson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Summer in Lakes Region of NH and winter in the Sonoran Desert of AZ
    Posts
    138
    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    You didn't mention the fuel pump. When the engine stops running turn the key off. Then listen for the fuel pump when you turn the key back on. If you do not hear the fuel pump at the very least you have a fuel pump-related issue. If you do hear the fuel pump when you turn the key back on will it start at that point? I assume so based on your comments. (Yes it does)

    As to the surging when you say it is surging forward are you stating the engine picks up rpm? (It will only run if the throttle is opened and then it leaps forward like a saturn 4... soon to drop out as though the ignition was turned off... more throttle and repeat.) A fuel pump that begins to starve for fuel will typically lean out and you will get an increase in engine rpm. Has the bike sat for any length of time with fuel in it? (Yes 15 years old with 6000 miles so it must have. Plus 14 winters in New England) This is a fairly common scenario in a fuel pump failure and I'm guessing here but it's probably fair to say I've seen dozens of BMW fuel pumps replaced over the course of time. Not saying this is the issue but am saying verify fuel pump condition should be included in your diagnostic path given all the other items you have checked out. Considerably more so if the bike has sat with fuel in it.
    Thanks, Yes the pump does run momentarily when key-on. It doesn't seem to lean out but shuts off abruptly. Both techs reported that when it goes into unrunable mode it is very rich leading me towards the canister being purged of gas into the throttle bodies as Roger suggests possible. I was surprised to hear that it can be so bad the bike quits. That too seems to make the purging of the canister a suspect. I'll take the suggestion and unplug the servo valve.
    Thanks, -Ralph
    2002 F650GS, 1998 R1100R 75th anniversary edition, 1983 R80RT (just sold), 1959 R60 (in restoration), Honda CT90
    If you must make a mistake, make a new one each time.

  5. #5
    BMW Rider
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    750
    Quote Originally Posted by rdhudson View Post
    Thanks, Yes the pump does run momentarily when key-on. It doesn't seem to lean out but shuts off abruptly. Both techs reported that when it goes into unrunable mode it is very rich leading me towards the canister being purged of gas into the throttle bodies as Roger suggests possible. I was surprised to hear that it can be so bad the bike quits. That too seems to make the purging of the canister a suspect. I'll take the suggestion and unplug the servo valve.
    Thanks, -Ralph
    If the bike has sat for 15 years with gas in it the fuel pump is as close to guaranteed to be shot as possible. I would highly recommend pulling the pump for inspection. I think you mentioned replacing the fuel filter now I think of it... are you referring to the internal filter? You would have seen the pump at that point. I could be wrong but the likelihood of a pump surviving 15 years in fuel that was just sitting may be darn near impossible.

  6. #6
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    south of Los Angeles
    Posts
    1,520
    If you're handy with a wrench, the TPS really doesn't need any special diagnostic machine to set it up - just a good digital voltmeter. See the "Zero=Zero" articles in the Oilheads tech section at http://www.ibmwr.org/

    The guy you spoke to may not have been the real service "manager", but a service "writer"...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •