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Thread: BMW told me I have a defective engine and needs to be replaced on my 2005 r1200gs

  1. #16
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Thanks for you comments Polarbear

    I should hear something by next week. I am hardheaded and will not give up when I have not been done right. I told BMW USA that "I am the nicest pain in the butt you will ever deal with". I am very polite when dealing with them, but I do not give up.

    Will keep you posted.

  2. #17
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    New poll up on whether the MOA should have a more proactive stance for it members

    We can find out in a few weeks if there is any interest in a strong proactive advocate within the MOA in dealing with BMW NA concerning possible or known defects with our bikes and other pressing issues at hand.

    So go the the Forum and look under Motorrad and you will see the poll titled "Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?"

    Let see what happens

  3. #18
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    Is there any particular reason why you seem unable to stay in one thread on the same subject ?
    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  4. #19
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by espressoforyou View Post
    We can find out in a few weeks if there is any interest in a strong proactive advocate within the MOA in dealing with BMW NA concerning possible or known defects with our bikes and other pressing issues at hand.

    So go the the Forum and look under Motorrad and you will see the poll titled "Should the MOA have a proactive roll in presenting its members concerns to BMW NA?"

    Let see what happens
    Big stretch using the phrase "known defect" as I see very few others post with the same problem.

    You really only have a case if the problem arose during the new bike warranty period. If so, you'll be better off hiring a lawyer rather than whining to a forum as the former's real world as opposed to the naive idealism of the latter. And, you know, there are plenty of lawyers specializing in suing drivers that hit motorcyclists but I've never heard of any specializing in suing manufacturers over so-called "known defects." Not any that don't injure anybody anyway.

    But yes, of course the club should have a consumer advocate. An obvious service. Yes, it sounds scary if you're a volunteer officer but you hire an employee expert to do it. In fact all major companies seek feedback and the function could even be funded by BMW given a good, nonconfrontational proposal.

    Of course typically when you're an elected officer only your viewpoint matters as you've been anointed and you know what's best for everyone else and don't really seek feedback. Plenty of officers have already stated this opinion in another thread. Feedback should be sought by the officers in an ideal world and not through polls on this forum started by others.

    Sorry officers, but what counts is effect and not intent. That's how you look whether you intend it or not.

    Would you really believe as a club officer that if you proposed creating this position to the membership that you'd get a negative response? Not likely, I think, and that makes it a matter of fear, doesn't it?
    Kent Christensen
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    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  5. #20
    BMW Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Big stretch using the phrase "known defect" as I see very few others post with the same problem.

    .............
    Agreed. I kind of prefer "fails in larger numbers than I would anticipate". Leaves some squiggle room. Dealers may or may not have a handle on a given failure rate other than a pure guess. BMW NA is certainly not throwing out failure rates to the dealer organization. It's closer to "What problem?"

  6. #21
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    Sorry, not going to read the entire stream of posts on this BUT....Is this right....seals start leaking during warranty period, but for some reason or another they were never fixed (correctly)? Then 3-5 years later the engine needs replaced? Did the dealer not fix it correctly? Why wait so long to push the "I'll hate them for doing this forever button"? Is the dealer not the culpable party? Actually, I don't think I'd pay much more than they've offered you for an '05 with an engine that needs replaced.
    '14 R1200RT
    MOA #46783

  7. #22
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    I don't blame you for not reading the whole post Motodan, I am tired of it myself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Motodan View Post
    Sorry, not going to read the entire stream of posts on this BUT....Is this right....seals start leaking during warranty period, but for some reason or another they were never fixed (correctly)? Then 3-5 years later the engine needs replaced? Did the dealer not fix it correctly? Why wait so long to push the "I'll hate them for doing this forever button"? Is the dealer not the culpable party? Actually, I don't think I'd pay much more than they've offered you for an '05 with an engine that needs replaced.
    You are correct, I waited to long to insist on a buy-back and should have gotten a lawyer years ago. I spent 3 years dealing with customer service that would not escalate my case up the decision ladder to someone that could offer a buy-back. And then talked to Anthony Cavanaugh for 2 years before he finally told me last month that my" bike in not repairable and the only solution is a new engine which would cost $9,000 and is more than the bike is worth". I tried to deal with BMW NA way to long and should have contacted a lawyer years ago. I assumed the BMW would do the right thing, I know I "assumed".

    I hope other members with possible defects with their bike will not give the dealer multiple chances to fix the same problem, but contact a lawyer right away. It is not the dealer fault that BMW puts out a defect product from time to time. Maybe defects are rare but they do occur. So I don't blame the dealer.

    So here is a brief recap of the repair history. Note: the dealer entered the incorrect mileage on some of the receipts.

    It started off with the BMW Little Rock Dealer(now closed) pointing out to me while still under factory warranty the leaking seal to me and said that it is a not an uncommon problem on 2005 r1200gs.

    2005 R1200GS vin: WB10317A55ZL77208 05-30-2012
    Randy Holdford Collierville TN
    07-14-2007 Miles: 12,555 First reported oil leak. Service writer said to monitor leak
    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________
    04-09-2008 Miles: 15,444 Little Rock BMW Warranty 0004995-134
    Defect Code: 1111584800 Shaft sealing ring
    Output shaft
    Clutch end leaking, installed new clutch
    Clutch Plate BMW 21217697737, Shaft Seal BMW 23127683995, Drive Shaft Seal BMW23127656019
    Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11117685005
    __________________________________________________ ___________________________________
    10-22-2008 Miles: 3,847??? Little Rock BMW Warranty 0006037-1083
    Defect Code: 2312004800 Sealing ring
    Input shaft, front leaking
    Transmission Input seal BMW 23127705086
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    02-04-2010 Miles: 27,538 Little Rock BMW Warranty 0008199-3346
    Defect Code: 2312004800 Sealing ring
    Input shaft, front leaking
    Transmission Input seal BMW 23127705086, Compensating shaft seal BMW 1117685005
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    07-28-2010 Miles: 30,606 Bloodworth Motorcycles Warranty
    Defect Code: 1127064800 Shaft sealing ring, Compensating Shaft
    Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11117685005
    __________________________________________________ _____________________________________
    05-20-2011 Miles: 36,438 Bloodworth Motorcycles Warranty
    Output rear/ cylinder clutch
    Output Cylinder clutch BMW 21527724542, Seal, Clutch M/C 23127705085
    __________________________________________________ ______________________________________
    Page 2
    09-25-2012 41,183 miles Put bike in the shop on 06-04-2012 and picked it up 16 weeks later on 09-25-2012
    Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11117685005 Compensating shaft seal
    Input Shaft seal BMW 23127705086 Transmission Input seal


    09-26-2012 41,287 miles Drove the bike 1 hour and had to return it because of a bad bearing.
    Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 1117685005 Compensating shaft seal(rear)
    Compensating Shaft Seal BMW 11118528387 Compensating shaft seal(front)
    Compensating Shaft front bearing 11147665326 Compensating shaft bearing(front)
    Compensating Shaft front O-ring 11147665328 O-ring for front of engine for the shaft
    Compensating Shaft Balance Weight 11277670337 Compensating Shaft balance weight

    The seals started leaking again with around 42,700 miles on the bike. I have it scheduled for repairs the end of the month but might cancel the appointment and see if I can make it till winter to have the repairs done.

    So far all repairs have been covered by the factory warranty or the 2 year parts and labor warranty. So looks like I will take my bike in for repairs once or twice a year and BMW NA will be paying for the repair cost.

    The reason why I hit the "Hate them forever button" at this time is because BMW NA offered me the "generous" buyback of $1,241.17 for a bike that came from the factory with a defective engine and they now admit that it can never be repaired. I have been telling them that for 5 years. I sent a letter to BMW last month offering to buy a new f700gs from Bloodworth BMW if they would increase the trade-in allowance. Bloodworth offered me $4,000 for my bike because they are going to have to wholesale it and don't want it on their showroom. Normal trade-in should be around $5,500 to $6,500 for a bike with 41,000 miles. I told BMW NA that is they would allow a trade assist of $2,500 to Bloodworth to get my trade-in up to $6,500 that I would buy a bike out of Bloodworth's inventory. So all BMW NA to make me happy is throw in a $2,500 trade-in assist. But instead that offer $1,241.17 for a buy-back which is at least $4,000 to low.

    That's what got me mad.


    By the way, I don't hate BMW. I own two of their bikes. My wife rides a 2001 f650gs and has never had any problems with her bike.

    Defect happen and that is to be expected. But it is how the manufacture deals with the defects that is important. BMW NA stalled for years and now when it is costing them $2,000 to $4,000 per year in warranty repair cost they decide that the engine is defective.

  8. #23
    Plasterman tgf429's Avatar
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    I understand and I would be upset too, but mostly at my self. You made a choice and now have to live with it. It's not always the world we hoped for but it's the reality we must accept. Your pretty much screwed yourself.....I would have had the bike returned under the lowa lemon law early on.

  9. #24
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    "known defect" is what the dealer called my leak when he pointed it out to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Big stretch using the phrase "known defect" as I see very few others post with the same problem.

    You really only have a case if the problem arose during the new bike warranty period. If so, you'll be better off hiring a lawyer rather than whining to a forum as the former's real world as opposed to the naive idealism of the latter. And, you know, there are plenty of lawyers specializing in suing drivers that hit motorcyclists but I've never heard of any specializing in suing manufacturers over so-called "known defects." Not any that don't injure anybody anyway.

    But yes, of course the club should have a consumer advocate. An obvious service. Yes, it sounds scary if you're a volunteer officer but you hire an employee expert to do it. In fact all major companies seek feedback and the function could even be funded by BMW given a good, nonconfrontational proposal.

    Of course typically when you're an elected officer only your viewpoint matters as you've been anointed and you know what's best for everyone else and don't really seek feedback. Plenty of officers have already stated this opinion in another thread. Feedback should be sought by the officers in an ideal world and not through polls on this forum started by others.

    Sorry officers, but what counts is effect and not intent. That's how you look whether you intend it or not.

    Would you really believe as a club officer that if you proposed creating this position to the membership that you'd get a negative response? Not likely, I think, and that makes it a matter of fear, doesn't it?
    "known defect" I asked the dealer in Little Rock to check my bike out for any problems about 6 months before warranty was do to expire. The service writer went straight to the area where the leak was and pointed it out to me(I never noticed it before). The service writer said that "early production models tended to have this problem". So far 6 mechanics have tried to repair it with 18 seals and BMW NA has finally declared it a defect and an unrepairable engine. Both dealers that tried to repair the bike mentioned to me that early production models 2005 r1200gs were more likely to have this problem. So the dealers knew it was a problem and I imagine that BMW NA knew it when they kept getting warranty claims and I for sure knew it was a problem.

    Here are some links to other sites that have reported this problem.
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=724130

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=794021

    http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthre...GS-seaping-oil

    http://www.roadrunner.travel/2013/03...s-new-r1200gs/

    http://bmwr1200gsservicehistory.blog...055-miles.html

    http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229414 Beware bad language from this guy.

  10. #25
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Good point lkchris except I bought the bike with 3,200 miles on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by tgf429 View Post
    I understand and I would be upset too, but mostly at my self. You made a choice and now have to live with it. It's not always the world we hoped for but it's the reality we must accept. Your pretty much screwed yourself.....I would have had the bike returned under the lowa lemon law early on.
    In TN you have to be the original purchaser to file under the Lemon Law and I bought the bike with 3,200 miles on it from a BMW dealer in Oklahoma City, which by the way is now closed. I should have filed under small claims court and am finally talking to a lawyer. I thought BMW NA would makes things right, but I was wrong. Which is why I now say when your are not getting satisfaction from BMW NA or your dealer then contact a lawyer. I don't like dealing with lawyers but sometimes you have no choice.

    All right, I will admit it. I was a fool to wait so long. I hope other reading this post will not wait.

  11. #26
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    snip

    But yes, of course the club should have a consumer advocate. An obvious service. Yes, it sounds scary if you're a volunteer officer but you hire an employee expert to do it. In fact all major companies seek feedback and the function could even be funded by BMW given a good, nonconfrontational proposal.

    Of course typically when you're an elected officer only your viewpoint matters as you've been anointed and you know what's best for everyone else and don't really seek feedback. Plenty of officers have already stated this opinion in another thread. Feedback should be sought by the officers in an ideal world and not through polls on this forum started by others.

    Sorry officers, but what counts is effect and not intent. That's how you look whether you intend it or not.

    Would you really believe as a club officer that if you proposed creating this position to the membership that you'd get a negative response? Not likely, I think, and that makes it a matter of fear, doesn't it?
    It's my impression that that kind of club activity or service is not very likely with this club. The volunteers have never seemed to me to be the kind of folks who would aspire to that. Almost kind of endemic in this club.
    Whatever.
    Nice magazine.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  12. #27
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by espressoforyou View Post
    "known defect" I asked the dealer in Little Rock to check my bike out for any problems about 6 months before warranty was do to expire. The service writer went straight to the area where the leak was and pointed it out to me(I never noticed it before). T...............................
    Help me out here, is this a leak, that drops oil on the floor, or a seep that collects dust on the bottom of the engine/trans??
    2010 F800GS Full Ohlins package, '04 R1100S Replika
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  13. #28
    Dixie, the land of cotton
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    Just seeps sometimes, but on a few of the seal replacements were because of drips.

    Quote Originally Posted by pffog View Post
    Help me out here, is this a leak, that drops oil on the floor, or a seep that collects dust on the bottom of the engine/trans??
    This is the tell tale sign of a counterbalance or engine out put leak. Even a small leak over time can contaminate your clutch. Had to have first clutch replaced at 17,000 miles.

    Engine or Transmission seal leak.jpg

  14. #29
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Wow, it's hard to keep up with all these postings! The original poster has started several of these threads and the other has been closed so that the focus can be in one area. We've heard a lot about this situation, but the proliferation of posts throughout the forum is not "our" style. So visit this forum if you interested.

    http://www.bmwmoa.org/forum/showthre...-the-MOA-forum

    Thanks...this thread is now closed.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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