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Thread: Attention all 1999 R1100R oil nerds - A very short report on oil consumption

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Don't you just love when Tony Stewart throws his helmet at that car in that short clip? I think they call it passion in racing! In a non-racing environment work place you get either reprimanded and/or fired. Why the difference I wonder? Does the standard business not believe in passion? The problem in most dealerships is no one is filled with passion therefore the quality of customer care degrades.

    I visited a Harley store recently, an extremely large one. I walked around for 5 minutes (yes, I clocked it) and not a single individual said anything to me. I decided to leave but then made the decision to walk around another 5 minutes as surely someone would acknowledge my presence. After a full 10 minutes with zero employees recognizing they had a warm body within the store I left. Never ceases to amaze me. Then they wonder why the P&L is performing so poorly. I prefer to leave my money with dealerships that have actually trained the help to say something to me.
    Last comments on the subject:

    Actually no, I don't love it when one driver assaults another for some perceived affront or miscue. And I'm not sure what crap service at a Harley dealership has to do with NASCAR. But we seem to agree on oil. Lastly, both Scott and Droot make valid points.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    Last comments on the subject:

    Actually no, I don't love it when one driver assaults another for some perceived affront or miscue. And I'm not sure what crap service at a Harley dealership has to do with NASCAR. But we seem to agree on oil. Lastly, both Scott and Droot make valid points.
    The helmet was thrown at a car not a driver. Harley was discussed due to a lack of passion within the store. Most of these palaces seem to lack passion.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    Don't you just love when Tony Stewart throws his helmet at that car in that short clip? I think they call it passion in racing! In a non-racing environment work place you get either reprimanded and/or fired. Why the difference I wonder? Does the standard business not believe in passion? The problem in most dealerships is no one is filled with passion therefore the quality of customer care degrades.

    I visited a Harley store recently, an extremely large one. I walked around for 5 minutes (yes, I clocked it) and not a single individual said anything to me. I decided to leave but then made the decision to walk around another 5 minutes as surely someone would acknowledge my presence. After a full 10 minutes with zero employees recognizing they had a warm body within the store I left. Never ceases to amaze me. Then they wonder why the P&L is performing so poorly. I prefer to leave my money with dealerships that have actually trained the help to say something to me.

    Your a good son.
    I had the same experience buying a Yamaha 11 yr ago where I live. Had the cash, walked into local dealership, made 2 rounds around the showroom stopping at my choice 2 times. Walked into parts, stood by the counter 3 min, then walked fairly slowly, back out thru the showroom and out the door. I was never acknowledged by anyone in the building. Nope not once... Bought the bike at a dealer 60 miles away that have been super to me, At least they looked like they were interested in taking my money ! The 1st place? It took them 9 yr to go out of business. I realized, after talking to folk and later to employees that worked there, that I was not the demographic they want to sell to. Simple enough.

    I've been in the heavy diesel, aircraft, automotive and now cellular in my 35yr of experience. Use the oil that you believe works best for you, and you intended application. I've been and gone around the block on this one many times. I over change oil after a rebuild and break-in, but I use additives during that period. After that, this sounds simple but what works for the engine and you use really is up to you, there is no 1 magic oil that does it all. Frequent oil / filter changes and clean air and fuel are the tips that work for me. I know you aren't looking for oil opinions and I'm not going there, honestly, I believe a little experimentation is ok, but I usually buy a good quality product in the right viscosity and I haven't had any problems either like I guess the majority of people do with stock engines..

    I personally have never experienced of seen the horror stories of changing a bike from non syn to syn or back. If they do occur and I believe it could, it is a very rare occasion. Again, I don't think in most cases the brand of oil is a deal breaker, as long as it is a quality oil, you get the required viscosity right, and change the oil regularly.

    Oil consumption? I am looking at a 1000 cc 5 valve per, Yamaha Thunderace for my next bike, that notoriously have a rep for using a quart in 4000 miles. My 600cc Thundercat? Doesn't use any oil. 2 very different engines under the same banner, different consumption rates.

    I would say that 175cc in the miles you rode it isn't bad. I do know and have a good friend that carries a qt of oil in his Ace everywhere he goes. One day he is going to dig into it, but he is content with the engine is now as it is.

    I guess if you can live with the oil consumption, then go and live with it.

    And again, your a good son for visiting your mom on Mother's day weekend.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dadrider View Post
    Your a good son.
    I had the same experience buying a Yamaha 11 yr ago where I live. Had the cash, walked into local dealership, made 2 rounds around the showroom stopping at my choice 2 times. Walked into parts, stood by the counter 3 min, then walked fairly slowly, back out thru the showroom and out the door. I was never acknowledged by anyone in the building. Nope not once... Bought the bike at a dealer 60 miles away that have been super to me, At least they looked like they were interested in taking my money ! The 1st place? It took them 9 yr to go out of business. I realized, after talking to folk and later to employees that worked there, that I was not the demographic they want to sell to. Simple enough.

    I've been in the heavy diesel, aircraft, automotive and now cellular in my 35yr of experience. Use the oil that you believe works best for you, and you intended application. I've been and gone around the block on this one many times. I over change oil after a rebuild and break-in, but I use additives during that period. After that, this sounds simple but what works for the engine and you use really is up to you, there is no 1 magic oil that does it all. Frequent oil / filter changes and clean air and fuel are the tips that work for me. I know you aren't looking for oil opinions and I'm not going there, honestly, I believe a little experimentation is ok, but I usually buy a good quality product in the right viscosity and I haven't had any problems either like I guess the majority of people do with stock engines..

    I personally have never experienced of seen the horror stories of changing a bike from non syn to syn or back. If they do occur and I believe it could, it is a very rare occasion. Again, I don't think in most cases the brand of oil is a deal breaker, as long as it is a quality oil, you get the required viscosity right, and change the oil regularly.

    Oil consumption? I am looking at a 1000 cc 5 valve per, Yamaha Thunderace for my next bike, that notoriously have a rep for using a quart in 4000 miles. My 600cc Thundercat? Doesn't use any oil. 2 very different engines under the same banner, different consumption rates.

    I would say that 175cc in the miles you rode it isn't bad. I do know and have a good friend that carries a qt of oil in his Ace everywhere he goes. One day he is going to dig into it, but he is content with the engine is now as it is.

    I guess if you can live with the oil consumption, then go and live with it.

    And again, your a good son for visiting your mom on Mother's day weekend.
    Please don't misunderstand. I am not saying 175 cc is a lot of oil consumption. Just the opposite. It is well within reason.

  5. #20
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    Hi Billy, no misunderstanding. I just wanted to put out some of my ramblings from what I've seen over the years.

  6. #21
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Back to the original post: This confuses me a little bit - Synthetic oil is alleged to be slipperier/slicker than petro oil ... wouldn't this make it more likely to get past rings and valve seals (therefore more consumption), or does it "stick" better and maybe even "burn" less??

    Hope this doesn't start another battle...!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    Back to the original post: This confuses me a little bit - Synthetic oil is alleged to be slipperier/slicker than petro oil ... wouldn't this make it more likely to get past rings and valve seals (therefore more consumption), or does it "stick" better and maybe even "burn" less??

    Hope this doesn't start another battle...!
    I'm not an oil engineer therefore I plead pretty much total ignorance. I just know that like woman I know what oil I like .

  8. #23
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    "I don't always drink oil, but when I do, it's..."
    Attached Images Attached Images

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    "I don't always drink oil, but when I do, it's..."
    Are you trying to tell me I'm similar to the Most Interesting Man? Aw, shucks...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    Back to the original post: This confuses me a little bit - Synthetic oil is alleged to be slipperier/slicker than petro oil ... wouldn't this make it more likely to get past rings and valve seals (therefore more consumption), or does it "stick" better and maybe even "burn" less??

    Hope this doesn't start another battle...!
    As I am not an oil engineer, I only know what I read and what I experience...

    It is my understanding that the strings of oil molecules in synthetic oil are more resistant to being cut/split/severed than those of regular oil. Because of this, synthetic oil use frequently reduces oil consumption due to the molecule string being "larger" than a standard oil string of molecules and therefore less likely to fit through a specific tolerance. i.e. piston ring/cylinder wall gap.
    Last edited by BC1100S; 05-23-2013 at 07:33 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    - Synthetic oil is alleged to be slipperier/slicker than petro oil ... ...!
    I think this is a lot of bs. I hear about slipping clutches in unit engines, oil leaks through seals and so on. Some of these stories are "conventional wisdom" and are being repeated over and over by people who have not actually experienced it.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pauls1150 View Post
    Back to the original post: This confuses me a little bit - Synthetic oil is alleged to be slipperier/slicker than petro oil ... wouldn't this make it more likely to get past rings and valve seals (therefore more consumption), or does it "stick" better and maybe even "burn" less??

    Hope this doesn't start another battle...!
    Be careful not to assume that a reduction in oil volume automatically means it is getting past the rings. Evaporative losses can be significant, increasing the amount of oil that gets to the air box through the breather on an oilhead. Ever get a hot oil smell from your bike while stuck in traffic on a hot day? That's evaporation and some oils are more prone to it than others and it doesn't always follow synthetic vs. non synthetic lines. Google NOACK Volatility.

  13. #28
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    Oil ( Oh there i've said it!)

    Some useful basics:
    Flash Point-temp at which a particular oil will burn
    Pour Point-how cold can it get before the oil gets too thick to flow
    Shear Point-What point does the oil break down

    If you do some reading, you will see that synthetics vastly out-perform dino oils.

    Had a Mazda 323 back in the 80's. Mobil 1 every 5000 miles.
    @ 60,000 took the car in for a cam belt replacement as per the maintenance schedule
    When I came back to get the car the service mgr asked me to "come out and look at something"
    Promptly got the heebeegeebees
    Service mgr took the cam cover off and asked if/when I had the head replaced as the inside looked like a new engine
    I informed him that the engine had never been apart.
    The only explanation was the oil
    Nuff Said

    Will

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    As I am not an oil engineer, I only know what I read and what I experience...

    It is my understanding that the strings of oil molecules in synthetic oil are more resistant to being cut/split/severed than those of regular oil. Because of this, synthetic oil use frequently reduces oil consumption due to the molecule string being "larger" than a standard oil string of molecules and therefore less likely to fit through a specific tolerance. i.e. piston ring/cylinder wall gap.
    On the contrary, synthetic molecules are smaller (and more consistent). This is frequently cited as the reason synthetics are more apt to "weep" past gaskets and end up on the outside of your engine casing. Or mine, at least.
    2000 R1100RT / 1987 K75C (RIP) / Santa Clarita, CA

  15. #30
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Have to agree with James. Opinion: "superior" oil should be more likely to get into smaller clearances. Think of what would happen if there was NOT oil between the rings and the cylinder wall.

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