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Thread: 2001 R1150 GS - Clutch / Transmission Failure at 14,500 miles

  1. #16
    Registered User GKman's Avatar
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    Not getting the picture.

    1. Running in neutral - whine or no whine?
    2. Shifted into first gear, engine off, not touching clutch lever - does trying to rock the bike feel like it's trying to turn the engine over or is it disconnected so pushing is easy?
    3. Same question in second gear?

    If pushing is easy in first with the clutch lever out, I'm not believing an oily disk is the culprit. Way to much pressure plate spring. Something is broken.

    I don't know this clutch disk is manufactured but I have seen riveted hub broken out and spinning in a car clutch disk. Might make a whine.

    If something broke, considering the misalignment problem some of these models had, it would be wise to look into WHY something broke.
    I went to the trouble of tearing my 2001 down just to check the spline lube. At 60,000 miles the shaft was like new. Fortunately I didn't get one of the bad ones.
    Last edited by GKman; 05-15-2013 at 11:33 PM.

  2. #17
    Pistol Shooter headhog's Avatar
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    Several interesting possible causes presented here. I'm sure everyone is eager hear what the OP reports.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GKman View Post
    Not getting the picture.

    1. Running in neutral - whine or no whine?
    2. Shifted into first gear, engine off, not touching clutch lever - does trying to rock the bike feel like it's trying to turn the engine over or is it disconnected so pushing is easy?
    3. Same question in second gear?

    If pushing is easy in first with the clutch lever out, I'm not believing an oily disk is the culprit. Way to much pressure plate spring. Something is broken.

    I don't know this clutch disk is manufactured but I have seen riveted hub broken out and spinning in a car clutch disk. Might make a whine.

    If something broke, considering the misalignment problem some of these models had, it would be wise to look into WHY something broke.
    I went to the trouble of tearing my 2001 down just to check the spline lube. At 60,000 miles the shaft was like new. Fortunately I didn't get one of the bad ones.
    Thanks:
    1 - running in neutral - everything is normal. Shift with clutch still in - normal. Let clutch out in any gear and out comes a grinding whine. Cannot get back into neutral unless I turn off the engine.
    2 - not running, shift into first or second - can push easily, with a gritty scraping sound as the bike moves, engine definitely not turning as I push it. The sound appears to be coming from toward the front of the bike. It would be interesting if we could attach audio files - some of you gurus could probably diagnose the problem just from that!

    Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

    I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.

    My semi uneducated guess is something more than just a seal / oil - more something that broke loose.

  4. #19
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    grinding sounds? can you shift the bike with motor running, or only when bike is off? missed shifts- up or down?

    with the bike on the c-stand, running, in gear- what does the rear wheel do? normal speed, partial speed, no motion at all?

    and yes, you can attach audio files- just like posting a video. in fact, that might be the easiest way to do it, jsut post a vid.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  5. #20
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

    I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.
    I'd like the beer - but hope I'm wrong. Bikerfish has the best sound description of stripped clutch spline.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  6. #21
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    Thanks:
    1 - running in neutral - everything is normal. Shift with clutch still in - normal. Let clutch out in any gear and out comes a grinding whine. Cannot get back into neutral unless I turn off the engine.
    2 - not running, shift into first or second - can push easily, with a gritty scraping sound as the bike moves, engine definitely not turning as I push it. The sound appears to be coming from toward the front of the bike. It would be interesting if we could attach audio files - some of you gurus could probably diagnose the problem just from that!

    Replaying a ride last weekend I did have a couple of missed shifts - which I thought were my fault due to new boots but now wonder if this was a first symptom.

    I will get a diagnosis today - seems like I should buy beers for those who've contributed. Funny how talking about bikes is interesting. Not as good as riding, but still interesting. I will update later today.

    My semi uneducated guess is something more than just a seal / oil - more something that broke loose.
    Now that I read this, I suspect the input shaft fwd bearing.
    '
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    Now that I read this, I suspect the input shaft fwd bearing.
    BMW of Grand Rapids just got back to me and they can't get to the bike until Monday. I'm off for the weekend to the upper peninsula of michigan - on a Honda......
    I'll share the diagnosis Monday.

  8. #23
    It is what it is. Bud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    That shows just how little you S owners know

    Attachment 40105
    This has to be one of the funniest posts on this forum. Or, perhaps it is just my warped sense of humor.
    I used to post here, but now I don't.

  9. #24
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    Fixed - shredded clutch spline

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    This is an good thread, and I'm interested in hearing what the OP finds out.

    But PAS, I wonder if Paul is lucky or more like the protagonist in "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" who stays in touch with his machines ...
    I just heard back from BMW:

    Failed Clutch, and somehow the clutch spline was chewed to death. given the speed of the failure it seems like the teeth just shaved off in unison. So instead of being bounced all over it was just sitting there and I was hearing a grinding whine but nothing violent. Slave cylinder didn't look good but didn't seem to have failed. I asked them to closely check alignment. Dealer hadn't seen this type of failure on this model - said he had seen it on some 1100's. Main input shaft was fine (thankfully), other seals are fine, transmission appears to be fine. They replaced the clutch, related seals, and it is apparently running perfectly (I pick it up tomorrow) for about $1,000 (the mechanic has the same exact bike and is pretty fast).

    Thanks for all the input - I'm not sure their was a clear winner, but GKMan seemed pretty close - Happy to buy any of you a cool drink if my next ride brings me your direction. If you come near Grand Rapids, MI let me know - always room in the garage, and a rustic cottage on Stony Lake just North of Whitehall that doesn't get enough use.

    I'm off this weekend up the west coast of lake michigan - some great stretches of paved and unpaved roads all the way to the Mackinac Bridge. Next weekend off to Farminton, PA. I'd love to make the RA event at the Biltmore in N.C. but can't make it to Portland - just too far and not enough time.

    Thanks again,

    John

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    I just heard back from BMW:

    Failed Clutch, and somehow the clutch spline was chewed to death. given the speed of the failure it seems like the teeth just shaved off in unison. So instead of being bounced all over it was just sitting there and I was hearing a grinding whine but nothing violent. Slave cylinder didn't look good but didn't seem to have failed. I asked them to closely check alignment. Dealer hadn't seen this type of failure on this model - said he had seen it on some 1100's. Main input shaft was fine (thankfully), other seals are fine, transmission appears to be fine. They replaced the clutch, related seals, and it is apparently running perfectly (I pick it up tomorrow) for about $1,000 (the mechanic has the same exact bike and is pretty fast).

    Thanks for all the input - I'm not sure their was a clear winner, but GKMan seemed pretty close - Happy to buy any of you a cool drink if my next ride brings me your direction. If you come near Grand Rapids, MI let me know - always room in the garage, and a rustic cottage on Stony Lake just North of Whitehall that doesn't get enough use.

    I'm off this weekend up the west coast of lake michigan - some great stretches of paved and unpaved roads all the way to the Mackinac Bridge. Next weekend off to Farminton, PA. I'd love to make the RA event at the Biltmore in N.C. but can't make it to Portland - just too far and not enough time.

    Thanks again,

    John
    You did well for $1k, it's a big job, I have done a few.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  11. #26
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John M View Post
    I asked them to closely check alignment. Dealer hadn't seen this type of failure on this model - said he had seen it on some 1100's.
    How do they do that? The only way I can think of it is to mount the indicator on the flywheel, rotate the crankshaft, and read the input bearing housing bore thus:[ATTACH=CONFIG]40206
    Agree you got off very lucky!
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  12. #27
    Just me rad's Avatar
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    That is too bad.

    I had two of those failures on one Oil Head over ten years ago, an 1100.

    I hope the repair goes well for your bike

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by NRPETERSEN View Post
    How do they do that? The only way I can think of it is to mount the indicator on the flywheel, rotate the crankshaft, and read the input bearing housing bore thus:[ATTACH=CONFIG]40206
    Agree you got off very lucky!
    try this.

    http://forums.pelicanparts.com/bmw-r...h-splines.html

    there are a several other threads on how to deal with this issue on Pelican.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  14. #29
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    Bill Pierce's Pelican Part's response using a shaft extension from the crankshaft (at ~post 31) is better, but having the extended shaft only 1/4 inch dia adds that deflection, which could be substantial, into the run out measurements. That's why I made the indicator fixture as rigid as possible & used three rare earth magnets (salvaged from a disk drive) to magnetically mount it on the flywheel bolts.

    I was really wondering if someone had a way to check run out without tearing the transmission apart. Maybe using a precision sleeve over the old spline etc but it would be necessary to remove the old clutch pack, and a bitch to read.

    As usual many posts were seizing on the un-engaged spline length, but I don't think that will significantly help a radial misalignment.

    I think the reason BMW never recognized this problem publicly is the incredible expense to check and repair wearing splines. I'll bet there has been some sweating over this warranty issue, and the problem is probably due to initial clutch housing clamp deformation in the machining setup.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  15. #30
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    That is too bad.

    I had two of those failures on one Oil Head over ten years ago, an 1100.
    It was just the bike's way of telling you to "buy something else, we don't need your kind 'round here."

    BTW, I'm working the registration desk at the rally in Salem and will be keeping a close eye out for RS and former S owners. There will be S Conversion Kits available for RS owners. I haven't decided how I will react to to meeting a former S owner. Might be something like but more likely it'll be, "Let's go for a beer. You're buying."

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