Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 50

Thread: 2008 R1200RT - 32,000 Miles - Final Drive Failure

  1. #31
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,709
    As to the oil level, they sealed the drive. And I think pressure was causing the seal to wear on the seal surface. So they reduced the oil level in an attempt to solve that. Then they came out with the vented drives.
    There was some debate as to whether the lower oil level would reduce the pressure. Seems like it would.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  2. #32
    Dixie, the land of cotton
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    257

    Sorry for the problem but glad you had the warranty

    Quote Originally Posted by ExGMan View Post
    I picked up the bike two days ago (I had been away for two weeks out of the country). For those who are interested in the specifics, all the parts came to $1951.60, and labor came to: $150.40. Anyway, the big piece was a 33 11 7 726 895 part for $1857.68. This is described as a "Right-angle gearbox with vent, silver." Another $92 covered nuts, pivot pins, screws, etc. Since this install was done at a BMW dealer, it now has a 2-year warranty from BMW. Since it's a brand-new final drive, I was advised to return to the dealer to change the fluid at 600 miles on the new piece.

    For me, the cost of the extended warranty was worth the peace of mind as I embarked on an 8200-mile trip to CA and back last Fall. Now that it has actually paid off, I'm pleased that I spent the $$ but am a little nervous about the future with this RT.
    Before the extended warranty expires I would take the bike back to the dealer and have them look for any possible problems.

    It would not surprise me if BMW NA got rid of the 2 year parts and labor warranty at some point.

    The 2 year parts and labor warranty has allowed to get my defective engine seals repaired for free for 8 years now on my 2005 r1200gs. It is scheduled to go in the shop next week for more seal replacement under warranty.

    Glad you are on the road again and at no cost to you.

  3. #33
    Dixie, the land of cotton
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Memphis
    Posts
    257

    Good reply ponch

    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    Alfred:

    If BMW didn't have problems with FDs, then it wouldn't be an issue. Enough people have had problems and it makes the most anal among us crazy. I've owned other bikes that had common issues with a particular model/engine, but the fixes were found by the owners and it was/is relatively cheap fixes. In this case, failure of a FD isn't going to be cheap and there seems to be no rhyme or reason to why they blow up. On the other hand, there are plenty other manufacturers that produce FDs with engines that have a lot more stonk and bikes that weigh more, yet they don't see near the failure rate we do. So, it may never happen to you or I or TGA, but you have to admit, it's in the back of your mind that it could happen.
    I hope Alfred never has a FD failure. But he shouldn't question other concerns about a well known problem. Sounds like Alfred did his daily dose of BMW Kool-Aid and that is fine to be proud of a company.

  4. #34
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    1

    FD failure

    I agree-There are 5 riders in our group-3 ride 1200 GS and 1 a brand new rt and another a 1150 GS. So far 3 of the bikes have lost their FDs. The RT rear went at 2000 miles, the 1150 went twice with a total of 47,000 miles. The 1200GS just went at 28,000 miles. I have owned over 15 BMWs (mostly pre 70) and never had a problem with the FD. I also have owned a lot of Honda shaft drive bikes and have never heard of failures in their FD. Everyone we speak to has the same answer-Not a question of will it go but WHEN. I have been riding for over 50 years and if I were to head for Alaska from NY it would be with a chain drive machine. Easy to carry 2 sprockets and a chain for spares. BMW should admit there is a problem and we are the ones paying for it.
    Deke MacPherson

  5. #35
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    3,466

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by deke macpherson View Post
    I agree-There are 5 riders in our group-3 ride 1200 GS and 1 a brand new rt and another a 1150 GS. So far 3 of the bikes have lost their FDs. The RT rear went at 2000 miles, the 1150 went twice with a total of 47,000 miles. The 1200GS just went at 28,000 miles. I have owned over 15 BMWs (mostly pre 70) and never had a problem with the FD. I also have owned a lot of Honda shaft drive bikes and have never heard of failures in their FD. Everyone we speak to has the same answer-Not a question of will it go but WHEN. I have been riding for over 50 years and if I were to head for Alaska from NY it would be with a chain drive machine. Easy to carry 2 sprockets and a chain for spares. BMW should admit there is a problem and we are the ones paying for it.
    Deke MacPherson
    Thanks for the detailed post, Deke. Interesting information. Your frustration is palpable and while I sympathize with your views, there are two truisms you need to acknowledge on this issue. Both are firmly entrenched in a culture of denial.

    1) BMW Motorrad is one of the least transparent global motorcycle corporations on the planet - they will never acknowledge that a problem did or does exist. This makes any perception that "the problem has been solved" wishful thinking at best, and simply brand-loyalty cheerleading at its worst.

    2) There are many who are so passionately loyal to a brand that any criticism is nothing less than offensive, and often it gets shouted down. Regretably, nothing gets improved quickly that way - instead a mechanical status-quo usually results, which does not promote evolution of the product.

    While a majority of owners may not experience an FD failure during their ownership years of that model, the problems with the FD's are real and chronic. Consider that your odds of being murdered in your lifetime are extremely low. Yet a prudent person doesn't pretend there is no problem or tempts fate with reckless behavior. The same principles apply here: FD failure should be a more high-profile concern (both from BMW and bike owners) and should receive greater attention on the corporate level.

    Sadly, they are already restocking the Kool-Aid in aisle 5.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  6. #36
    Registered User liv2ride's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Honolulu, HI
    Posts
    202
    Quote Originally Posted by deke macpherson View Post
    I agree-There are 5 riders in our group-3 ride 1200 GS and 1 a brand new rt and another a 1150 GS. So far 3 of the bikes have lost their FDs. The RT rear went at 2000 miles, the 1150 went twice with a total of 47,000 miles. The 1200GS just went at 28,000 miles. I have owned over 15 BMWs (mostly pre 70) and never had a problem with the FD. I also have owned a lot of Honda shaft drive bikes and have never heard of failures in their FD. Everyone we speak to has the same answer-Not a question of will it go but WHEN. I have been riding for over 50 years and if I were to head for Alaska from NY it would be with a chain drive machine. Easy to carry 2 sprockets and a chain for spares. BMW should admit there is a problem and we are the ones paying for it.
    Deke MacPherson
    I am interested in knowing what specifically failed on these bikes? Are we talking FD bearing, shaft, spline or universal joint? What other facts can you share about riding style, maintenance attentiveness, etc?

    Scot
    2012 R1200RT - Fluid Grey Metallic

  7. #37
    Just me rad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Santa Cruz
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    .........snip.............Sadly, they are already restocking the Kool-Aid in aisle 5.
    I Can't disagree too much with your comments.

    I have been there, two final drive failures on an Oil Head, one of those 2,000 miles from home. As I have stated a couple times lately, I left BMW ownership for about 5 years, I rode mechanically flawless VFR?s.

    But..I came back. Why? I can't find another bike out there that meets my requirements. There are a number of shaft drive bikes, but almost all are heavy and covered with body work, not what I'm after.

    How do I deal with my lack of trust in BMW reliability? I now look at the rear drive as a replacement wear item. I ate up chain & sprocket sets about every 20k on my VFR's so the cost to repair the rear drive is close to the same as two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets.

    I also have gone back to BMW because every motorcycle dealer, except KTM, has gone belly up in town. The saving grace for BMW is that they are so darn easy to work on; I do most of my own work. For those highly technical parts of a job I have one of the best repair guys in the biz just a couple miles away, Ted Porter. Any other brand I would be hauling my bike out of town for work.

    So, no kool-aid drinking here, which of course makes it much more difficult to lay on the straw mat, pull up the purple blanket and close my eyes.

  8. #38
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,709
    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ride View Post
    I am interested in knowing what specifically failed on these bikes? Are we talking FD bearing, shaft, spline or universal joint? What other facts can you share about riding style, maintenance attentiveness, etc?

    Scot
    I think it would be interesting to hear what component actually failed in the FDs, but riding style and attentiveness is a manufacturer's song. I personally can't think of any FD failure that I know about that can be attributed to riding style or unreasonable attentiveness.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  9. #39
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Wilmington, NC
    Posts
    2,119
    I agree with Deke that I'd don't trust BMWs current FD for ultimate reliability- there is no doubt that a chain drive, despite being a nuisance- is a better choice if you're heading away from support (but do maintain it lest it break and hole an engine case). Relucantly said because I despise chain maintenance= they work but are the worst part of any bike that has one. (Yes I own one chain drive bike, a Transalp)
    Costs are a different issue - costs for any type of FD over 100K miles can be substantial whether through belt drive replace/repair, chain/sprocket replacement or FD repair/replacement for a BMW.

    I've also not personally met any Honda or Yamaha owners who've had an FD failure (including me) though I'm sure there are some. But I've personally met lots of BMW riders who have, a few at low miles. My experiences suggest BMW FDs are considerably less reliable than J brand versions- though none of the 4 BMWs in our fleet has puked one yet (all are in the 25-50K mile range).

    The thing is, most expect a diff to bulletproof- you've got to look long and hard to find anyone whose cage puked a diff, let alone at short miles.
    The fact that the replacement can go $2K is aggravation on top of the annoyance of early failure.

    The first machinery related question I'm often asked by owners of other brands is about BMW reputation for unreliable FDs- the word is out to other riders that failures aren't rare and can be expensive. Whether it has any effect on sales I don't know- I suspect most folks who spring for the price of a new BMW aren't hugely worried about it given the warranty and their means...

  10. #40
    RT in NC
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    191
    At least I can get home with a bad radio.lol

  11. #41
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Chestnut Hill, MA
    Posts
    304
    Quote Originally Posted by liv2ride View Post
    I am interested in knowing what specifically failed on these bikes? Are we talking FD bearing, shaft, spline or universal joint?
    Scot, et al - OP here. The BMW Tech who discovered my FD failure told me that it was a bearing failure, based on symptoms (sounds, feel and the like) but not based on disassembly. BMW advised the dealer that no parts were available for repair any more and that only a complete FD could be shipped, and the defective piece (the entire thing) would be returned.

    As to riding style, I'm a poky old rider who makes longer trips, and avoids abrupt maneuvers and spirited riding. That said, the first 2200 miles were run up by the the first owner.

    Also, FWIW and as I noted, the replacement unit sent from Germany has a vent...but the original did not.
    John Gamel
    2008 Kalahari Beige R1200RT
    LEOSA Certified

  12. #42
    RT in NC
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    191

    warranty

    What coompanies are good sources for extended warrenties?

  13. #43
    Registered User ExGMan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Chestnut Hill, MA
    Posts
    304

    Extended Warrantee Companies?

    Hogwide - I have only had experience (this one claim) with National Auto Care. I don't have any knowledge of other companies. I hope that National Auto Care would provide the same (excellent) degree of support and attention at any place in the US, but my experience for both repair work and the original sale of the policy was at the same place in Massachusetts. I'd expect that if the FD failure were discovered in say, San Diego, the exact same result would have occurred.

    I imagine others in the forum might offer differing opinions.
    John Gamel
    2008 Kalahari Beige R1200RT
    LEOSA Certified

  14. #44
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Sheboygan, WI
    Posts
    3,466

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by rad View Post
    I Can't disagree too much with your comments.

    I have been there, two final drive failures on an Oil Head, one of those 2,000 miles from home. As I have stated a couple times lately, I left BMW ownership for about 5 years, I rode mechanically flawless VFR?s.

    But..I came back. Why? I can't find another bike out there that meets my requirements. There are a number of shaft drive bikes, but almost all are heavy and covered with body work, not what I'm after.

    How do I deal with my lack of trust in BMW reliability? I now look at the rear drive as a replacement wear item. I ate up chain & sprocket sets about every 20k on my VFR's so the cost to repair the rear drive is close to the same as two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets.

    I also have gone back to BMW because every motorcycle dealer, except KTM, has gone belly up in town. The saving grace for BMW is that they are so darn easy to work on; I do most of my own work. For those highly technical parts of a job I have one of the best repair guys in the biz just a couple miles away, Ted Porter. Any other brand I would be hauling my bike out of town for work.

    So, no kool-aid drinking here, which of course makes it much more difficult to lay on the straw mat, pull up the purple blanket and close my eyes.
    Your situation seems to be one of geographical necessity - understandable.

    But I think the high cost of Southern California living comes into play as well. "...two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets." = a final drive repair?

    Whoa! My son tore thru many chain/sprocket sets on his Suzuki Katana while commuting to college. A quality set (RK Racing Chain in anodized gold, with steel front & rear sprockets), including labor and misc. shop supplies, never exceeded $275 per incident. At $2k PLUS labor, it would have taken around 8 times to equal a BMW FD failure.

    Not to mention that since it is exposed, you can see when the lifetime of a chain is ebbing, and be aware of it's impending failure, timing when and where it gets replaced - no stranded trip worries.

    Perhaps corporate strategy all along was to ignore the problems long enough that consumers would, as you put it, "...look at the rear drive as a replacement wear item."

    Let's hope other manufacturers don't hop on that band wagon. It would exhaust the world's supply of cherry, raspberry and lemon-lime!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

  15. #45
    Just me rad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Santa Cruz
    Posts
    825
    Quote Originally Posted by greenwald View Post
    "...two or three sets of quality chains & sprockets." = a final drive repair?

    Whoa! My son tore thru many chain/sprocket sets on his Suzuki Katana while commuting to college. A quality set (RK Racing Chain in anodized gold, with steel front & rear sprockets), including labor and misc. shop supplies, never exceeded $275 per incident. At $2k PLUS labor, it would have taken around 8 times to equal a BMW FD failure.D
    I was talking Oil Heads when I came back to BMW. If you do the repair yourself, depending on which type, it can be less than one chain and sprocket set. Having the work done at our local shop, carry in the rear drive, I figured $600-$800. My numbers could be way off by now.

    As for the Hexhead, ya, sounds like it is far more $ to rebuild a rear drive. On the other hand, it does not appear that the failure rate, compared to the Oil Head rate, is near as prevalent...........Mmmmmm, I could be whistling in the dark

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •