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Thread: MC vs Bicycle

  1. #16
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    Depends on what you mean by "accident," Lew.

    If you mean the occurrence was unintended, then yes, I agree. The motorcyclists certainly wasn't out there to hurt people.

    But the word "accident" is sometimes used to support the idea that there's no legal responsibility (read: liability) for the action. That shouldn't be the case here. For all the reasons that have been presented, the cycle rider did not accomplish what a prudent and reasonably competent rider should have done: avoiding a collision with the bicyclists, who were proceeding legally in clear view.

    OK. Back to retirement now.
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  2. #17
    Registered User Bob_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lmo1131 View Post
    what is really sad (other than these guys getting hurt) is the bicyclist vs. motorcyclist "us-against-them" running commentary on the youtube page. The motorcyclist wasn't hot-shoeing in peloton with other motorcycles, his knee wasn't planted on the asphalt going around the curve. ...

    Regardless of skill level this was an accident, pure and simple.
    Not an accident, a collision. Among other things I am a bicyclist and get really tired of motorists causing death or crippling injury in totally preventable and avoidable crashes. It is uncommon for motorists to suffer more than a fine for killing a cyclist (or a pedestrian!) if it is an "accident" or if they claim "I didn't see him". Persons using the roads engage in a social compact to operate their vehicles in a safe and responsible manner. As motorcyclists know, this does not necessarily mean going the speed limit. It does mean paying attention, driving (riding) within one's skill level and not engaging in distracting behaviors or being drunk. When a motorist does makes the choice to violate these "rules of the road" and they cause death or injury, they should be held accountable. Hitting a bicyclist or a motorcyclist with a car should be considered assault with a deadly weapon. It is just not right to wave it off and say "it is just stuff that happens." Motorcyclists and bicyclists are both vulnerable road users, so it should not be an us vs them scenario.
    Last edited by Bob_M; 05-02-2013 at 01:10 AM.

  3. #18
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_M View Post
    Not an accident, a collision.
    David Brick
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  4. #19
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbrick View Post
    In fact it looks more like an "on purpose" it is so heinous.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
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  5. #20
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_M View Post
    Not an accident, a collision. Among other things I am a bicyclist and get really tired of motorists causing death or crippling injury in totally preventable and avoidable crashes. It is uncommon for motorists to suffer more than a fine for killing a cyclist if it is an "accident" or if they claim "I didn't see him". Motorcyclists and bicyclists are both vulnerable road users, so it should not be an us vs them scenario.
    It doesn't help when bicyclist get the same right of way as MV. In Iowa, they are allowed to ride anywhere in the road that a MC or car does and to add to it, many times bicyclists will ride abreast in a lane doing 25 at best in a 55. It's stupid and many times they will not get over if traffic builds behind them. The thing is, they pay no registration fees or gas tax, so I don't know why this is so other than RAGBRAI.
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  6. #21
    rabid reader dbrick's Avatar
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    To me, it looks like incompetence and target fixation.
    David Brick
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  7. #22
    Registered User Bob_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    It doesn't help when bicyclist get the same right of way as MV. In Iowa, they are allowed to ride anywhere in the road that a MC or car does and to add to it, many times bicyclists will ride abreast in a lane doing 25 at best in a 55. It's stupid and many times they will not get over if traffic builds behind them. The thing is, they pay no registration fees or gas tax, so I don't know why this is so other than RAGBRAI.
    There is no doubt that there are a$$holes using every type of transportation, including bicycles. Cyclists have long used the phrase "Share the Road", but many don't see this as a two way arrangement. Here in Portland I get miffed at bicycle rider who chit chat as if roadways are Starbucks lounges. Still these are people not bicycles, just like drivers are not cars. The transportation system is set up that bicyclists are allowed to use the roads. Heck bikes were using roads before cars were invented, so it could be said they have eminent domain. And unless there is an event like Cycle Oregon, or RAGBRAI, the imposition put on motorists by cyclists is usually only a matter of seconds over the course of a trip.

    The notion that bike riders don't pay their fair share is a red herring. Most bike riders have motor vehicles and pay plenty of taxes. If we were to pro rate the impact to infrastructure comparing a bike to a car, or even a motorcycle, the wear and tear to bridges and roadways caused by bikes is insignificant. But I will gladly pay a maintenance fee based on vehicle weight.

  8. #23
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    Okay... accident ... collision.... we're mincing words. Unless his name is Tsarnaev it was unintentional ... as in, without malice. Needs more seat time before he tackles a road like this, a lot more.

    Most bike riders have motor vehicles and pay plenty of taxes.
    I'm sorry, I thinks that's lame. I'd argue that the tax is on the vehicle, not the rider/owner. If you want to pedal along the Pacific Coast Highway up to Big Sur in a protected Bicycle Lane ... you (and your buds) had better be willing to pony up for the taxes to support the maintenance of a Bicycle Lane. ( I ride a bicycle BTW).
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  9. #24
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    I think you guys are missing the point. Where I am from in NY, bicycles can't share the roadway as if they are a motor vehicle and I bet a lot of states are like that and for good reason. In Iowa, they can ride in the middle of the lane going substantially slower than the speed limit and any motor vehicle. IMO, bicycles should stay the extreme right.
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  10. #25
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    In this case the bicyclists were extreme right and still got hit by the idiot on the motorcycle who was clearly 100% at fault.
    If that motorcyclist lived out here he'd be one of those morons who goes off the Dragon into the trees.

  11. #26
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    Accident, or collision, or crash is not mincing words. Too often in regards to motorcycles the word "accident" is used like its something "that just happened". I call BS on nearly every motorcycle incident called an accident. And until nearly every motorcycle incident is called a crash or collision we'll continue to foster this idea that the motorcycle operator is somehow removed from the responsibility of his/her actions before the crash/collision that were the actual cause or major contributor to the results.

    I'm not saying anyone here is trying to describe this crash in terms that remove the responsibility of the cycle rider from the results. But lets call it what it really is, a totally avoidable crash or collision, certainly not an accident.

  12. #27
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    In this case the bicyclists were extreme right and still got hit by the idiot on the motorcycle who was clearly 100% at fault.
    If that motorcyclist lived out here he'd be one of those morons who goes off the Dragon into the trees.
    Absolutely,but imagine coming over a rise and having 2-3 bicycles across the lane doing less than 25 in a 55. The guy in the video better have good insurance.
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  13. #28
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    Accident, or collision, or crash is not mincing words. Too often in regards to motorcycles the word "accident" is used like its something "that just happened". I call BS on nearly every motorcycle incident called an accident. And until nearly every motorcycle incident is called a crash or collision we'll continue to foster this idea that the motorcycle operator is somehow removed from the responsibility of his/her actions before the crash/collision that were the actual cause or major contributor to the results.

    I'm not saying anyone here is trying to describe this crash in terms that remove the responsibility of the cycle rider from the results. But lets call it what it really is, a totally avoidable crash or collision, certainly not an accident.
    At least he didn't "lay it down". :
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  14. #29
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Obviously the motorcyclist bears the greatest responsibility of fault.
    But if I may add another contributing factor:

    This curve is well known by every rider around here; it's just up the hill from the Rock Store. There is FREQUENTLY a camera crew set up on the inside of the curve - probably the very guys who recorded this - and that is well known too. They don't tell anybody to wave or pop a wheelie or touch their knee down, but they are indeed a big distraction. They have a website and you can buy their pictures.

    Side note: After a serious accident, you really aren't supposed to move the vehicles (or pieces thereof) around until the police take their incident investigation photographs. The recording camera crew provides a little grace here, and no doubt they will have their records subpoenaed by the investigating agencies and/or insurance companies.

  15. #30
    Registered User lmo1131's Avatar
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    But the word "accident" is sometimes used to support the idea that there's no legal responsibility (read: liability) for the action.

    That shouldn't be the case here.
    I said nothing about abdicating personal responsibility.

    But lets call it what it really is, a totally avoidable crash or collision, certainly not an accident.
    From Webster


    ACCIDENT

    ac-ci-dent
    noun \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\

    1
    a : an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance
    b : lack of intention or necessity : chance

    2
    a : an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance
    b : an unexpected and medically important bodily event especially when injurious (a cerebrovascular accident )
    c : an unexpected happening causing loss or injury which is not due to any fault or misconduct on the part of the person injured but for which legal relief may be sought [my emphasis added]

    Related Words


    calamity, cataclysm, catastrophe, cropper, deathblow, disaster, tragedy; bummer, knock, misadventure, misfortune; collision, crack-up, crash, smashup, wreck
    Hitting a bicyclist or a motorcyclist with a car should be considered assault with a deadly weapon.
    A deadly weapon, certainly. Assault, probably not, unless it could be proven that the operator intentionally hit the bicyclist. Had the motorcyclist intentionally cut close in to the bicyclist, in an effort to intimidate him, with the result that the bicyclist went off the road and sustained injuries (even if he was not physically contacted by the m/c), then the motorcyclist could have been charged with assault (with a deadly weapon). Intent is the keyword. See> Assault

    With regard to responsibility; that is what we all do when we throw a leg over the saddle and decide to head out onto the street; be it on a bicycle or motorcycle.

    "It is what you discover, after you know it all, that counts." _ John Wooden

    Lew Morris
    1973 R75/5 - original owner

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