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Thread: DIY vs Warranty

  1. #16
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickticket View Post
    Is there a list available that shows a schedule of recommended maintenance to keep my new bike in it's best possible mechanical shape?
    Regretfully, BMW does not make it easy to find the maintenance schedules.

    This is a good source:

    http://www.ascycles.com/bmw_motorcyc...les.aspx#RDOHC
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  2. #17
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    I'm a big proponent of DIY, IF you are capable and understand more than just which way to turn the wrench. But, I am also a proponent of having the dealer at least do the first service schedule. Think of it as insurance. If the dealer has record of at least the first service on the bike, and since if something is to go amiss it usually happens soone than later, then at least YOU and the dealer have a record to present to the factory should a "discussion" come up.

    If you do everything on the bike from day one, with no dealer participation, then its your word as an untrained inexperienced (no matter what YOU say, that is how the manufacturer sees it) home wrench against the wealth of knowledge of BMW. If anything doesn't fit right, work right, is mishandled, then the factory will have the attitude to wash its hands of the bike. Right or wrong, its all to you then to prove the issue on the bike.

  3. #18
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I'm a big proponent of DIY, IF you are capable and understand more than just which way to turn the wrench. But, I am also a proponent of having the dealer at least do the first service schedule. Think of it as insurance. If the dealer has record of at least the first service on the bike, and since if something is to go amiss it usually happens soone than later, then at least YOU and the dealer have a record to present to the factory should a "discussion" come up.

    If you do everything on the bike from day one, with no dealer participation, then its your word as an untrained inexperienced (no matter what YOU say, that is how the manufacturer sees it) home wrench against the wealth of knowledge of BMW. If anything doesn't fit right, work right, is mishandled, then the factory will have the attitude to wash its hands of the bike. Right or wrong, its all to you then to prove the issue on the bike.
    I can understand your reasoning ... but I wonder if that really happens?

    Maybe someone on this forum could speak up and confirm that they have gone through just what you've described ... anyone?

    BTW, my Ural has by far the best factory warranty support ... Ural owners speak glowingly of the factory warranties, as Ural not only quickly meets expectations but often exceeds their obligations.
    Last edited by Norms 427; 03-19-2013 at 02:11 PM.
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  4. #19
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    I'm just saying it could. I work part time at a BMW dealer and I have seen a lot of the botched DIY work of unknowing owners. If your bike has NO dealer maintenance record, and it develops a problem related to a warranty issue, BMW is still held to their side of the issue for the warranty, but I am sure a dealer will argue more in your favor if he knows something of the bike, because the dealer also represents the company and may take some of the cost hit.

  5. #20
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    ... botched DIY work of unknowing owners ...
    Yeah, I'd agree with that. DIY work needs to be done well.
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  6. #21
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
    Despite what the dealers say, the above act is in force in the USA. The burden of proof is NOT on you. I have seen far too many first scheduled maintenance's to believe that they are anything special. My FJR came back with missing plastic fasteners and I checked to see if they synced the TB's like they were supposed to, but did not. My Triumph Sprint ST cost me $120 for an oil change and a "visual inspection." IMO, that is the rule, not the exception.

    "Yeah, I'd agree with that. DIY work needs to be done well." If YOU screw it up, then YOU should pay for it, PERIOD!!! The reference above does not apply.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I'm just saying it could. I work part time at a BMW dealer and I have seen a lot of the botched DIY work of unknowing owners. If your bike has NO dealer maintenance record, and it develops a problem related to a warranty issue, BMW is still held to their side of the issue for the warranty, but I am sure a dealer will argue more in your favor if he knows something of the bike, because the dealer also represents the company and may take some of the cost hit.
    The dealer isn't taking any of the cost hit. The dealer is going to be paid at the labor rate he agreed to when he signed the franchise agreement for whatever time the factory labor times call for. As for bike owners screwing up DIY work, there are plenty of dealer mechanics that don't do so well either.
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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norms 427 View Post
    Regretfully, BMW does not make it easy to find the maintenance schedules.

    This is a good source:

    http://www.ascycles.com/bmw_motorcyc...les.aspx#RDOHC
    Norms427 - Thanks - that is perfect and goes to the point.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by sickticket View Post
    Norms427 - Thanks - that is perfect and goes to the point.
    Sick,

    That is the very source on which I based my previous statement:

    "The best idea would be to get the list from the service manager at the dealership where you bought/plan on having your warranty work done. That way there is no disagreement as to what should have been done. Several of those official looking online lists are completely missing some of the most critical known maintenance items (ie. early K bike final drive spline lube). If the guy that is making the decision on your warranty knows he is the guy that gave you the list of what to maintain, you should have no problem. If you get a list off the internet, they have room to say that it was the wrong or not current list."

    If you had used those lists to service an early Kbike, your final drive splines would have an early demise. Just because it's on a dealers website and says BMW on it does not mean it is the latest approved version with all the latest service bulletins and updates. Check with whichever dealer you buy the bike from and/or whichever dealer you would be taking any warranty issues to to make sure that those lists are complete. Periodically check with them to find out if there have been any updates or service bulletins.



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  10. #25
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    I suppose A&S (who is a BMW dealer) might not post up a mid-year update to a maintenance schedule. And I'm guessing that Haynes Manuals can't notify people of up a mid-year update to a maintenance schedule. Also, the $100 Maintenance DVD outfit also might not be able to notify someone of an update.

    It's possible, whether it's a Chevy or a BMW, that new recommendations come from the factory every so often though in my 35 years of backyard wrenching I've never been aware of it being a factor to anything I've owned.

    So to be very safe, then a DIY owner should check with the dealer perhaps monthly to make sure the latest maintenance schedule is correct. Scary.

    Personally, I live dangerously, so I won't be checking with my dealer periodically and I'll take my chances with the schedules from A&S, Haynes and the DVD.

    ________________

    P.S. Or, BMW could print their schedules in the owner's manuals like nearly every other manufacturer in the modern world and then if any updates come along they could post them on their website under Maintenance.
    Last edited by Norms 427; 03-21-2013 at 10:35 PM.
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  11. #26
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    Maintenance Schedules

    Quote Originally Posted by scalese01@verizon.net View Post
    Ok, I have learned a lot. Thanks for the responses.

    Final question (I think). Is there a list available that shows a schedule of recommended maintenance to keep my new bike in it's best possible mechanical shape?
    Provide your dealer with the last 7 of the VIN and they can print out the most current maintenance schedule. BMW maintenance schedule's are basically a live document and can change periodically. When the dealer enters the VIN he/she has access to the latest schedule.

    By the way... Moss/Magnuson Act prevents dealers from forcing folks to be dealer serviced. Federal law gives you the right to self-maintenance. Try to keep all receipts and mileage numbers in case they ask for something which they do have the right to do. However, lack of producing a doc doesn't automatically disqualify you. Should you damage something during a self-maintenance whatever you damage may be denied warranty coverage for that particular repair. An OEM cannot deny coverage for future events unless of course you decide to damage more things in the future. Your warranty remains in place for the full term however.

    There is something to be said for servicing at a dealership. OEM service reps will frequently ask if the customer has brought the bike in for the scheduled maintenances should you experience a failure after warranty expiration. The dealer performed services will not guarantee coverage once the warranty has expired however. It's up to the OEM to decide and the reasons can be complicated and have potential federal implications. Keep in mind some people will attempt services that they do not have the skill sets and/or tools for. So think and know with certainty if your concerned with potential warranty claims. Or, consider it a wonderful learning experience that may have financial implications and go with what you feel comfortable with.

    An important point when it comes to warranty: many folks will argue that something should be warranty after the warranty has expired. Realize there is zero guarantee the OEM will do something for you once you have reached the expiration point. The time to decide if you can live with the warranty terms is prior to the purchase not after. Read the warranty prior to purchase and decide if you can live with the terms. If you can't don't make the purchase.

  12. #27
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    The following info is not 100% correct...

    Quote Originally Posted by acejones View Post
    The dealer isn't taking any of the cost hit. The dealer is going to be paid at the labor rate he agreed to when he signed the franchise agreement for whatever time the factory labor times call for. As for bike owners screwing up DIY work, there are plenty of dealer mechanics that don't do so well either.
    This statement is correct: both customers and dealers can make mistakes. There is no business in the world that is perfect. Customers are not perfect either. Theoretically the dealer tech has a considerably higher skill set than most customers however but there are no guarantee's. The original post is factually correct... frequently a DIY individual will perform the repair wrong.

    As to the comment "The dealer isn't taking any of the cost hit." Not necessarily correct as sometimes BMW will negotiate a percentage claim on out-of-warranty repairs. For example the OEM may offer to pick-up 1/2 the cost if the dealer is willing to pick-up the other half or possibly the dealer will be asked to pick-up 1/4 and the customer 1/4. A dealer and/or a customer denial can scuttle the whole transaction. In addition, because flat rate times are based on certain assumptions which may or may not be present the dealership may not get full retail value for his/her share. This is an issue in automotive as well as motorcycle and in fact there have been class action law suits in regards to this. Never forget if an OEM understates "real" repair time they lower their expense on that particular repair because they pay the dealer less than full value. Some states guarantee through an act of law that an OEM must reimburse the dealer at retail rates. However the law does not get involved in how warranty times were determined. Some OEM's are worse than others and BMW is better than many but there are a variety of warranty repairs that even a BMW dealer will lose their butt on. It's just part of the gig. Almost 100% of the time the dealer will have zero say in the matter.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chewbacca View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
    Despite what the dealers say, the above act is in force in the USA. The burden of proof is NOT on you. I have seen far too many first scheduled maintenance's to believe that they are anything special. My FJR came back with missing plastic fasteners and I checked to see if they synced the TB's like they were supposed to, but did not. My Triumph Sprint ST cost me $120 for an oil change and a "visual inspection." IMO, that is the rule, not the exception.

    "Yeah, I'd agree with that. DIY work needs to be done well." If YOU screw it up, then YOU should pay for it, PERIOD!!! The reference above does not apply.
    If you are dealing with a dealership that is stating you need to do it through them you really need to find another dealer. Moss/Magnuson has been in effect for decades and only a deceitful dealer would be trying to play that game.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I'm just saying it could. I work part time at a BMW dealer and I have seen a lot of the botched DIY work of unknowing owners. If your bike has NO dealer maintenance record, and it develops a problem related to a warranty issue, BMW is still held to their side of the issue for the warranty, but I am sure a dealer will argue more in your favor if he knows something of the bike, because the dealer also represents the company and may take some of the cost hit.
    Let's rephrase this - if a dealer knows you damaged the part he/she should not be more willing to argue in your favor. After all if the dealer is willing to lie to the rep what makes you think he/she won't lie to you? Dishonesty after all is dishonesty. Even with a lack of documentation I would never offer a non-warranty repair unless I knew for fact it wasn't a warranty issue. Non-warranty needs to be backed up with facts and not assumptions. I really don't care about the receipts and the OEM will rarely press the receipt issue. But ethical dealings on both the dealer and customer is important despite our government teaching us otherwise. All involved parties need to be responsible in their dealings; OEM, dealer and customer.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ANDYVH View Post
    I'm a big proponent of DIY, IF you are capable and understand more than just which way to turn the wrench. But, I am also a proponent of having the dealer at least do the first service schedule. Think of it as insurance. If the dealer has record of at least the first service on the bike, and since if something is to go amiss it usually happens soone than later, then at least YOU and the dealer have a record to present to the factory should a "discussion" come up.

    If you do everything on the bike from day one, with no dealer participation, then its your word as an untrained inexperienced (no matter what YOU say, that is how the manufacturer sees it) home wrench against the wealth of knowledge of BMW. If anything doesn't fit right, work right, is mishandled, then the factory will have the attitude to wash its hands of the bike. Right or wrong, its all to you then to prove the issue on the bike.
    That is not the way the OEM looks at these things as federal law prevents it. It doesn't matter how much experience you have or if you have zero training. The facts are this: some DIY folk despite their lack of credentials and skill sets will do the work correctly and some will not. Those that don't and in turn damage something may have a warranty issue on their hands. There really is nothing magical about the first service. It is true you may catch a problem in its early stages but it's just as likely to occur at a later point in time.

    As far as the wealth of knowledge statement: often true but certainly not all the time. And, this may be a surprise but if the dealer creates a problem the problem turns into a non-warranty issue. No OEM will warranty dealer errors. The OEM will not pay the dealership for a dealership mistake. At that point the honesty of the dealer comes into play.

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