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Thread: Third Recall for New Motor GS

  1. #16
    Registered User TRJeff's Avatar
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    The bikes that we will get in the states are only now being built. the Canada bikes have been there for months and belong to BMW Canada, probably not in consumer hands.

  2. #17
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kltk165 View Post
    I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.
    As a former mechanic/service manager and engineer, it really is not that uncommon, even with Japanese makes. All manufactures have problems, I was around the auto industry when Toyota launched Lexus, and you would not believe the issues they had, what was strange was the ES250 was just a tweeked Camry that they had built millions of them, and it had more problems than the all new ES400! Who thought that changing trim and some pieces to change the suspension would cause tons of issues. It was a big multi-line dealer, I was the Saab service manager, and while my mechanics fixed little annoying things, rattles squeaks etc, the Toyota service department constantly changed engines and transmissions.

    But what the Japanese have is a GREAT PR department, remember when Lexus was the best, most reliable car ever made, and that was the perception BEFORE the first one was unloaded at the port! True story, the Lexus service department had a customer come in with about 25K on a Lexus with a motor knock. They pulled the dipstick an the oil looked like molasses, they couldn't find any service records, so they asked the customer where he was getting his car serviced, his reply was, more or less, I never had it serviced, that is why I bought a Lexus! All the company propaganda, and quality hype had this guy convinced that the car would never need fixing, which he interpenetrated as never needing service. The power of Propaganda (advertising)

    As an engineering manager I always reminded my staff that "It's all connected" and one small seemingly innocuous change can cause a $hit storm of other issues.

    I will just throw out one of a million possible scenarios on the oil seal issue. Prototypes and early production pieces worked great, but as production ramped up, the manufacturing engineers were looking to save a tool change on the CNC, to reduce cycle time. A change to the diameter of an oil passage was made which seemed innocuous, and tests looked like it was no problem........until.............. well you get the picture. "it's all connected"
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by kltk165 View Post
    I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.
    Two of my engr. son's supervise other engr's, some of which are not the best around & I doubt BMW has a lock on the only good ones to be hired as that defeats logic. -it's a real world out there as we all well know... Remeber the old adage,i.e., "there is one, everywhere you go" & out of 7,000 , I'll stick out my neck & say more than one...
    Toyota managed to screw up the simple floormats in my latest & 4th Tundra. They had a floor hook to retain the first 3 versions I owned then when they did away with that hook the floormats slid under the gas pedal-wow, some stroke of Asian(or USA?) genius so the fix is a thin version that cannot jam the pedal but has the quality of a flea mkt special! I hide the heavy duty ones from the dealers (I bought with the truck) as they will destroy them & install thin crappy ones in their place. There is a certain dose of incompetence present at most locations around the world & some of us(maybe most of us) have worked with those people.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  4. #19
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    Points well taken. Thanks fella's.

  5. #20
    Bluenoser
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    I can see some of the engine/transmission related issues that don't show up right away, but then again I wonder how thoroughly they were tested. But the front end is a whole different story. That is not really anything new, yes modified and changed but it is still based on the front ends brought out with the R1100 series of bikes.

    They are not off to a good start and it will hinder sales and their reputation. There are options out there and bad press is bad press. I agree with the stay away crowd on the first year of just about anything, especially something as expensive as a bike/car.
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  6. #21
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRJeff View Post
    The bikes that we will get in the states are only now being built.
    Interestingly enough, I just got the e-newsletter from Max BMW and there is some kind of test rides of the new bikes at each of their dealerships tomorrow. I can't tell much from the picture on the differences OM
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  7. #22
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    I don't mean to be an apologist for BMW, they pay people do that and the check is definitely not in the may to me. I am curious what larger context we put these three recalls and other motorcycle recalls and certification teething problems in. With apologies to Alex Trebek because I am not certain how to put my thoughts in the form of a simple question...

    When most of us started riding and driving we did not hear about recalls until the letter hit our mail box or we walked into a dealership. Now each day I check my RSS feeds from several countries to see if any and which motorcycles made the recall list. The race for me is who is first to post BMW screwed up and gets the scoop credit.

    BMW is having troubles along the way of getting a new bike combining existing technology past Transport Canada. Heck, if IIRC, it took Norton over a year to get a new bike based on an ancient simpler design past the same group.

    In the time since I have began riding how much has the certification/recall process improved? Are the testing processes more rigorous; the testers more skilled?

    When we read things how much of our discussion is a result of a greatly expanded context of information, declining quality over time of ___(insert your choice here)___, or just more of the same in a new package?
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  8. #23
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    or even the possibility of litigation? I just got a postcard this week from lawyers prospecting for potential "sudden acceleration" clients.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  9. #24
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    Cost of entry!

    Seems the new water'd beemer was a tad cheaper to buy and now, seems to get pricier? Issues crossing the Atlantic are sprouting, with Canada recalls and all, ouch. The 15000$+ MSRP will only go up. NJ is probably warehousing 100s of the new breed beemer as we speak and test rides are in the week to come, if not already. My CA dealer has mentioned this was the week to test ride'em. I am not a buyer, until the new GSA comes about. Once on a GSA, no looking back. The extra farkles are worth waiting. My current GSA1200'07 is perfectly situated right under me a few more years. Randy

  10. #25
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    These types of problems are a symptom of what Rod noted in his comment and BMWs compartmented and matrixed organization where there are a ton of "experts" and no one person whose ass is on the line for getting it right the first time. You can bet Boeing has quietly fired or sidelined some folks over the battery issues on the 787. I worked with a bunch of euro companies before retiring and watched time and time again where screwups were accepted as a simple fact of rapid development and outsourcing and dealt with as they appeared. They don't do root cause analysis and prevention of similar issues in any serious way...

    Year 3 or 4 is the time to look at new models. It took from 05 until 08 to get the hexhead bikes reasonably correct and some would argue it toook until the cvamhead appeared. There is no reason to expect anything different with the wethead because nothing has changed at BMW except who is in political favor and running the show...

  11. #26
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acejones View Post
    Why ?
    Because all the bad engineers went to GM. I have a 2009 Suburban that burns oil and sounds like a singer sewing machine because of AFM or active fuel management. It's a common issue with the all aluminum 5.3L v-8. You'd think they could do better than that. Luckily I got the extended powertrain warranty.
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  12. #27
    Registered User bicyclist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    Year 3 or 4 is the time to look at new models. It took from 05 until 08 to get the hexhead bikes reasonably correct and some would argue it took until the camhead appeared.
    Agree with year 3 or 4. And then it's still a crapshoot. They're still running a fuel strip in the R1200R and we know how reliable that is.

  13. #28
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    It sounds to me the problem is that they don't test a production bike in the extended test. Testing bikes that are basically hand built isn't representative of what will come off the assembly line.
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  14. #29
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    If the fuel strip didn't work in the GS, then why would it work anyplace else ?
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  15. #30
    Registered User easy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bicyclist View Post
    Agree with year 3 or 4. And then it's still a crapshoot. They're still running a fuel strip in the R1200R and we know how reliable that is.
    I wonder if a BMW engineer or VP would put one in his daughter's bike. To me, that speaks volumes about BMW's biggest problem. Regardless of reality, they project a complacent attitude toward some of their most loyal customers.

    E.

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