See BMW CCA report at http://www.bmwcca.org/node/5522
See BMW CCA report at http://www.bmwcca.org/node/5522
'12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S
Does BMW not do any testing prior to selling a bike?
When bikes are tested, they were built with perfect parts by the best of the best. They accelerate the testing as much as possible. Many many things are found you never hear about. Then they source parts. Sometimes things slip thru. It can be as simple as tolerance an oil hole is specified at 1MM+-.2 But 1.2mm or .8MM causes a problem. Maybe the development department machines cam bores one way, and the vendor did them another, causing a problem even though they met specs. They test the bikes every day. So they do not discover that the fuel pump will stick when it sits a month. Or an additive in American car washes causes problems with switches. Suppose carbon gets harder when it sits, and builds up, causing detonation and the engine is destroyed. The wonderful space age plastic will crumble in 10 years. Stuff fails when exposed too vapor off the engine even though it is no were near fuel. Maybe you park outside, then later start up and put in garage, 30 seconds running and it will not start the next day. Yes all these things have happened in the real world and caused expensive recalls and hurt reputations. The carbon thing put OMC out of business. Cam bores in the OHC vette years back. More than one company caught by fuel pump and car wash things.
These are the things that testing will not uncover unless you test for many years, and put out obsolete products. It happens to everyone putting out state of the art equipment
Transportation testing is hard. It gets worse when all the older experienced guys get golden handshakes. Not an excuse, just the way it is.
Also you have new assembly lines with new people using new procedures and unfamiliar parts. Sometimes errors slip thru and aren't discovered until the units are out the door. Stuff happens.
Neal - '09 R1200GS / '81 R65
Be the person that your dog thinks you are.
Kinda what the whole idea of a 3/36 warranty is all about. Sucks not having your bike to ride, but, some things are gonna fail on new designs. It happens.
This is why I no longer buy first year models. I'm perfectly content with my 2012 GS Rallye and will wait until they get all the waterbugs flushed out...or maybe I'll just keep the Rallye.
No doubt BMW and every other interested party wish their product would pass with flying colors. Every manufacturer tests. Wouldn't testing by Transport Canada, NHTSA or any other certifying agency is a form of what in other arenas would be considered peer review before certification? The goal being validating the manufacturerÔÇÖs tests and or finding problems before certification.
I find it interesting that BMW is using (my assumption) as its first round of the certification process. I have not seen any recall information on any of the other sites I follow. If this is the case I wonder about the thought process that went into the decision and the length of time to certify the bike in other markets.
The advice not to buy first year models has been around for as long as I can remember. My budget has me buying used bikes so I can avoid the first year bugs and only have to deal with the ones inflicted on them by the previous owner(s). However, I am reminded of a recurring comment made by my father about ÔÇÿnew modelÔÇÖ cars and ones built on certain days etc. He put himself through college by working in a Ford plant. He held they built good and bad cars any year and on any day. Variations in parts suppliers to the plant for any part was more likely to affect the outcome than anything else. None of the technology involved with the new GS is revolutionary. It is largely a matter of new application of existing from what I can see.
All academic to me: as I said I buy used bugs.
One recall was for ASC program changes. Next recall was for a potential oil leak due to oil pressure buildup in the tranny. This third one is for a steering problem with the Telelever front end. So, it is apparent the issues are not directly related to the new engine design.
Certainly BMW tests, and tests, and retests. But like it was said, once a bike is on the production floor, supplier part issues, human errors, tooling issues, so many things can cause an issue. I used to work in chassis engineering at a large fire truck manufacturer. After all the testing, usually it was some human factor that caused any problems.
But given that, its not a bad idea to sit out the first year of a new model.
Discussion of handling issue here; http://www.ukgser.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328788
....According to the test it was at 75mph on a flat straight road.
Wheel kicks off a "harmless looking imperfection in the road".
Photo shows the lockstop ripped clean off.
14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.
A complete and measured one-page discussion of the handling issue is contained in this post:
cited in the ukgser forum mentioned by milo.
Lots of folks have ridden the new bike and loved it. The tankslap issue has now been reported by several experienced test riders, which suggests that this nasty result - the machine tested by UK's Bike Magazine oscillated so severely the steering limit stops were knocked off - is real if aberrational.
Santa Cruz CA
I don't take these issue's to heart as most manufacturers with a warranty are pretty good about fixing problems. But, why does it seem that these types of things happen more sporadically with Japanese bikes? Japanese cars too for that matter. I can't imagine BMW's engineers are inferior.
From what I've read, which translates to what BMW wants us to know, BMW does indeed have a comprehensive testing program. But it looks like it has not been quite comprehensive enough. When have you seen a BMW model bike that has had three recalls prior to most of the bikes being delivered to the dealership? I think it's going to be a great bike and I can see myself getting one, but please don't think that corporations don't at times push a little to get the new product on the market to start getting a return on the investment. BMW like any other corporation is here to make money even if it means taking the logo off our patch. (Which puts a smile on my face and reminds me of an old TV series. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKmJPnAGUJk . )
Easy, that is a great analogy, and exactly the way it made me feel.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
In their new RIDER, April 2013 issue with an intro of the new GS you might read Mark Tuttle,the magazines Editor, wherein he interviews Hans Blesse,VP of BMW Motorrad USA, r.e., the new R 1200 GS.
Tuttle :"They turned to the automobile division for help with the bikes suspension", where Blesse replies : " What we have is great synergy between the two divisions. There's expertise on the motorcycle side that the car division doesn't have and vice versa. So we have in the Fiz( BMW's design facility in Munich) at any given time, 7,000 of the best engineers in the world doing what they do, in this particular case, the car side had lots of experience with semi-active suspensions on the M cars. So our engineers had a chat with them about how to do this,..." and of course if you read the above posted recall info you know that even 7,000 BMW engineers(the best in the world?) just might have screwed up a bit?
"If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.