Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 78

Thread: ON Magazine's article on oil?

  1. #16
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Marion VA-In the middle of some of the best riding in the country.
    Posts
    3,287
    Over the years and after reading many oil threads, it is obvious which oil one should use. People have used almost every oil out there and they are happy with their decision because they have had not issues. Use any oil that meets the specs of your motorcycle of the proper viscosity and don't worry about it.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  2. #17
    No longer a member here
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,432
    Quote Originally Posted by jad01 View Post
    Good work!
    Absolutely!
    While many of us have made a decision on what oil to use, it is always good to have some additional point of view, unbiased info and data available. Even better if it is in form that is easily referred to and you know where to find it, like in a contribution to a magazine! Frankly, I prefer Kurt's article to those describing how to ride a GS in Spain, Mexico, Peru or Ireland.........

  3. #18
    Registered User chewbacca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    144
    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    For those that didn't see/read what lead up to this, go back to this thread:

    larabee: while this person is not on this list, I have seen the effects on an engine when the amount of ZDDP is allowed to go too low. A friend and I rode our /2s to Missisippi for Vech's rally in 2009. He has a '65 R60/2. Same basic engine design as the Airhead. Upon return, he changed oil only to find silvery flakes in the used oil. We decided to pull a jug. The cam follower faces were shredded...that was the source of the flakes. He had been using a previous good oil with lots of ZDDP...a Shell diesel truck oil IIRC. Somewhere along the way, they changed the forumlation of that oil, dropping the ZDDP. The result is a motor that needs a complete overhaul. Followers for sure, but the slingers in the bottom of the engine will be full, not to mention all of the cavities and galleys (such as they are in that motor). Hopefully the cam lobes will be fine and not need a new cam.

    My opinion is that oil is very important...probably the most important part on the bike. I wanted to know what some of the differences are. It's amazing what people don't know about what's inside the bottle. I was really dumbfounded when I went to buy the quart of Harley oil and all I got was shrugged shoulders. If I were a discerning customer, I probably would have turned around and gone to another place. I kind of expect the people who are supporting my bike to know at least something about the products they sell and support.

    I apologize if the article and graphs are confusing. I'm an engineer and write accordingly...I'll never write a novel! Some of these presentations I use all the time in my reports, so they come natural to me. If I can help with something, let me know.
    It would be interesting to know the number of miles on that 44 year old bike. As an engineer, don't you think that basing a conclusion on one data point has more attributes of a guess than a scientific determination of fact? The assumption that one additive, ZDDP caused the problem is rather thin in the evidence department as well. Those long distance diesel oils are tested for wear by almost all truck companies by regular oil analysis tests. You can bet if they lowered the ZDDP, they had good reason AND put something in their additive package to maintain good wear characteristics.

    I did not find your article confusing at all. Where we may have a disagreement is that I believe that almost all MC specific oils are excellent and the differences don't really matter. What I believe the lack of understanding is is that too many people want you to tell them that WonderOil XXX is the greatest and that that's what they should buy.
    Old But Not Dead
    Semper Fi

  4. #19
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    13,185
    Quote Originally Posted by CHEWBACCA View Post
    It would be interesting to know the number of miles on that 44 year old bike. As an engineer, don't you think that basing a conclusion on one data point has more attributes of a guess than a scientific determination of fact? The assumption that one additive, ZDDP caused the problem is rather thin in the evidence department as well.
    I seem to recall the bike has about 50K on it. He's not the first owner. And possibly connecting these dots are thin as you suggest. However, this failure of the cam followers is the classic result of lack of lubrication...I suspect you could talk to some of the independent mechanics and they would say the same...I don't mean to put words in their mouth.

    But they guy rode the bike for some time, no problems observed. Then the trip, the problem becomes evident. Tenious, but seems pretty clear to me.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
    '78 R100/7 & '69 R69S & '52 R25/2
    mine-ineye-deatheah-pielayah-jooa-kalayus. oolah-minane-hay-meeriah-kal-oyus-algay-a-thaykin', buddy!

  5. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern WV
    Posts
    621
    Quote Originally Posted by EMSimon View Post
    .... I found out, however, that certain weight automotive oils were exempt from the ZDDP reduction, like Mobil 1 15W40 and 20W50.

    All of the above considered, I use Mobil 1 15W40 automotive oil (which is significanlty cheaper than the Mobil 1 motorcycle oil) ....
    I assume you are referring to Mobil 1 15w-50? If so I agree it's a good oil (according to Mobil's specs, it's almost up there with V-Twin) for our BMW's with a dry clutch. After a few oil changes it is what I'll be using in my 2012 R1200. The fact it's not recommended with wet clutches (presumably because it's too slippery) is a good thing IMO. I wish Kurt would have included it in his test also but at some point there has to be a limit and I'm just grateful for his work. Meanwhile I was pleased to see the 20w-50 V-Twin test so well, plenty of phosphorus and zinc and right in spec for viscosity, because I recently stocked up with 18 qts for $6 per qt at Advance Auto with coupon.
    Last edited by milo; 03-07-2013 at 04:00 PM.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  6. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Leamington , Ontario
    Posts
    27

    oils well

    A big thanks to Kurt for that article. Up here in the frozen north (read Canada) many of the listed oils are not available.
    However thanks to Kurts info I see that there are several I can pick up locally that are reasonably priced and contain enough ZDDP.
    No more Michigan runs just for Spectro ......

  7. #22
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    B.P., MN
    Posts
    742
    Great article Kurt, thanks for printing it in our mag., really saves times squinting at PC. and a big thanks to many others who contribute to the News.

    The oil thing, might change back to Valvoline from Castrol because of the slightly better numbers. Can't hurt and it's always on the shelf at fleetfarm. the other slightly better numbers may be redundant and seem not command the much higher costs.

    and, one person simply cannot tell someone else, today, what to do, we all make out own individual choices, then we let the chips fall. Kudos.

  8. #23
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Fly Over Land
    Posts
    10,554
    I have not read the article; however this thread has moved it up on my to read list. I have read this thread (at least through the point I left to bang this out) and frankly donÔÇÖt get the thread.

    Is it an oil thread about an oil article? If so there has been precious little about oil and a great deal of credential posturing while attacking the author and his writing product rather than the underlying data and conclusions. Silly me, I thought the critical thinking process in things like this is to focus on the data or conclusions and vet that in the discussions.

    Is it a thread about technical writing/editing? If so there is a dearth discussion of how to structure an article (introduction, body, conclusion), a paragraph or even sentence structure. As owners of the Owners News you are publishers so where is the publisher discussion of editing of technical, or at least non - how I spent my summer vacation articles?

    And you guys wonder why Vince has trouble getting technical articles.
    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

    St. Paul Pioneer Press , Minneapolis Star Tribune

  9. #24
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Northern WV
    Posts
    621
    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    I have not read the article; however this thread has moved it up on my to read list. I have read this thread (at least through the point I left to bang this out) and frankly donÔÇÖt get the thread.

    Is it an oil thread about an oil article?.... .
    Yes, and the article is in your current issue of BMWON. You really should read it.
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  10. #25
    No longer a member here
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    1,432
    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    I assume you are referring to Mobil 1 15w-50? If so I agree it's a good oil (according to Mobil's specs, it's almost up there with V-Twin) for our BMW's
    Yes, sorry, it is 15W50. The other one is 10W40

  11. #26
    One big Oaff brewmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    central wisconsin along the wisconsin river
    Posts
    321
    I found ZDDP addative you can put in any oil you choose! At autozone around 9 bucks a pint and 2 shot glass's full added to the crank case does it. just saying
    81 R100RT

  12. #27
    Registered User b25bsaboy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Calgary, AB. Canada
    Posts
    423
    Quote Originally Posted by kentuvman View Post
    Let's acknowledge our Airhead moderator, Kurt 20744, for taking the time to do his homework and write the story. Writing a post here is easy - writing an article is not.

    There's so many posts about oil - for people who really want to know what the differences are, Kurt did a thorough job.

    Also agree that any oil is better than no oil.

    Most BMW's are the marvels of modern engineering - it's good to know all the specifics that allow our machines to operate to their maximum potential w/out doing long term damage to the components.

    My 2c
    +1

    Here is my take on oils. On the airheads, Dino oil. On the new machines say in the last 15- 20 years synthetic or semi synthetic is fine. Clean oil with a new filter changed regularly is better.
    Last edited by b25bsaboy; 03-07-2013 at 10:15 PM.
    Rick MacPherson
    Success is Not a Destination, But a Journey.
    Accredited Motorcycle Appraiser
    1968 BSA Starfire, 1976 BMW R75/6, 2009 R1200RT

  13. #28
    Registered User lbarbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Garner, NC
    Posts
    279

    ON Magazine's article on oil?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    I have not read the article; however this thread has moved it up on my to read list. I have read this thread (at least through the point I left to bang this out) and frankly donÔÇÖt get the thread.

    Is it an oil thread about an oil article? If so there has been precious little about oil and a great deal of credential posturing while attacking the author and his writing product rather than the underlying data and conclusions. Silly me, I thought the critical thinking process in things like this is to focus on the data or conclusions and vet that in the discussions.

    Is it a thread about technical writing/editing? If so there is a dearth discussion of how to structure an article (introduction, body, conclusion), a paragraph or even sentence structure. As owners of the Owners News you are publishers so where is the publisher discussion of editing of technical, or at least non - how I spent my summer vacation articles?

    And you guys wonder why Vince has trouble getting technical articles.
    Awesome. A review of a thread that reviews an article you haven't read.
    Lynn
    2008 BMW R1200RT (most fun you can legally have)
    2002 BMW R1150RT
    2008 Kawasaki Versys

  14. #29
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,000

    Purpose of the original question

    First of all, I DO commend the author of the article for the sheer amount of work put into the project. What I was questioning was the explanation of all of that overwhelming data. Still, having read the article carefully 2x through, I am still at a loss on how to "evaluate and come to my own conclusion." I think the article could have been much better if it had taken each of the test criteria, and then said something like this. Oils with higher ZDDP are better for these types of applications...and so on through other data as well. Then overall, NOT make a recommendation of any one of the oils, because that would differ from person to person based upon their particular priorities and perspectives. For example, someone who rides in extremely cold weather will have a priority to find the best oil for cold flow. Others, in Arizona, will want an oil in hot weather which will not foam and provide lubrication in extremely hot, dry weather. Others along the coastlines may be concerned about the affects of an salty atmosphere affecting oil longevity and so on and on. This is one of reasons for differing opinions.

    Probably one of the things that I personally wish is to evaluate differing oils (but not so many as the article did) of the slipperiness of the oils under varying conditions. For example, I have heard that synthetics are far slipperier than conventional oils - not so much just after the oil change, but a lot after some miles are on them. Another example is that I have been told by oil engineers that the synthetics provide MUCH better lubrication before engine warm-up which is when most engine wear happens - at start-up and just after.

    I used to work for a large corporation (which I am sure you have heard of) and our local plant (around 2,000 employees) used literally thousands of gallons of hydraulic oil each year. that company's choice was Mobil/Exxon which, I am sure, was largely chosen for cost/pricing reasons.

    Another issue I heard was that of all the synthetics, Mobil 1 was the ONLY pure synthetic. The oil engineer who told me this stated that all the others in some form still had a regular oil base. True? I don't really know.

    Years ago, I was told by an Amsoil rep, that he actually saw his car engine temperature gage go down after changing over to Amsoil! The problem with that logic was the the engine temperature gage is controlled by WATER temperature, and THAT is controlled by the thermostat. Even if the oil DID have the affect of producing less friction (thus less friction and less heat), the thermostat would simply have closed a little further to compensate and keep the engine at the desired constant temperature.

    Finally, after all this, I would like to have seen the article say "under these conditions" such and such oil appears to be better, but "under these other conditions" this oil would be better.

    Once people are shown HOW to sort through all that data then, and only then, can they make an "informed" decision based upon their own particular circumstances.

  15. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    1,000
    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post
    I have not read the article; however this thread has moved it up on my to read list. I have read this thread (at least through the point I left to bang this out) and frankly donÔÇÖt get the thread.

    Is it an oil thread about an oil article? If so there has been precious little about oil and a great deal of credential posturing while attacking the author and his writing product rather than the underlying data and conclusions. Silly me, I thought the critical thinking process in things like this is to focus on the data or conclusions and vet that in the discussions.

    Is it a thread about technical writing/editing? If so there is a dearth discussion of how to structure an article (introduction, body, conclusion), a paragraph or even sentence structure. As owners of the Owners News you are publishers so where is the publisher discussion of editing of technical, or at least non - how I spent my summer vacation articles?

    And you guys wonder why Vince has trouble getting technical articles.

    What I am wondering, Mika, is who appointed you to become the critic of the various commentors and criticizing them for expressing their reaction to the article.

    Perhaps you should have read the article first, THEN read the comments/questions, before you got so critical of THEIR comments!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •