Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 48

Thread: Camhead final drive lube 2012 R1200GS

  1. #31
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake NJ, USA
    Posts
    7,710

    Cool

    Trying to bring some clarity to the thread, which has drifted off into rear-drive-oils:

    1. BMW Spec'd SAF-XO which was unobtainium in the US.

    2. So BMW then spec'd their GL5 75W-90 synthetic oil - which is red (probably a dye) in color. Almost everyone got this at the first rear-drive oil change (if you were lucky and the dealer did it at the 600 mile service.)

    3. For a while - someone (I think it WAS BMW from talking to my parts guys) offered the official Castrol SAF-XO oil in Castrol packaging. It was expensive - around $45/liter. That showed up at my dealer and talking to the parts guys - they never sold ANY of it retail due to the price. They may have used it up on service bikes.. dunno, but it's now gone. That was BMW's MSRP on it.

    4. Suddenly! Appearing on the oil shelves of my dealer was a BMW branded oil called C-SAF-XO 75W-90 GL5 oil. Given the "C" in the branding - my WAG - it's the same oil they were selling for $45/liter - but it was now priced a reasonable $25/liter. I bought some. I haven't opened mine. So I dunno what color it is.

    5. People have bought the Castrol SAF-XO oil from Land Rover dealers - and report it cost about what #4 above cost, and was an amber color (no dye.) FWIW - Porsche spec's the same oil in differentials for my Cayenne - but everyone in Cayenne world uses Mobil-1 gear oil, with great success.

    My conclusions: (Some* stolen right from Paul Glaves)

    1. Some oil is better then no oil.*
    2. Either the original spec'd oil (the SAF-XO stuff) is good, but the BMW 75W-90 GL5 is likely equally as good.
    3. Clean oil is better then dirty oil.*
    4. We obsess too much over magic elixers - but there isn't any real harm to it except for the shelf of "old oils" in my garage, ones formerly thought to be the magic potion, then cast aside in the glow of a new Interwebz discovery.

    Anyone want a partly used bottle of BMW GL5-Synthetic? I'll make you a deal..
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  2. #32
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,702
    Various...first BMW has a history of changing the price of oils dramatically from one quarter to the next, second, I don't think there is any thing in the dealer agreement about setup charges. They do approve labor hourly charges, but that probably has more to do with the warranty labor charges which are a reduced percentage of the customer charge. A&S in my experience has often been a little higher on some items.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  3. #33
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Fountain Hills AZ
    Posts
    868
    Quote Originally Posted by DRw2ge View Post
    Yeah, I've drained my final after a dealer service and it was red... but according to DirtRider (he's THE GURU.. find him on BMWST forum) he says that it is one and the same...(The LandRover 7591 FD oil) I wonder if the red is just some dye?
    I visit that forum as well. I imagine it is dye. It probably is an identifier of sorts. I use Mobil 1. YMMV.
    My Motorrad
    BMWMOA 162849 | BMWRA 41335 | VROC 8109-R | VBA 19

  4. #34
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake NJ, USA
    Posts
    7,710
    IMHO - red just means it's red. The BMW 75W-140 GL5 gear oil is also red tinted. I somehow doubt VERY much that the color red makes any functional difference in the oil.

    See #4 above.
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  5. #35
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Fountain Hills AZ
    Posts
    868
    I doubt it makes a difference either.
    My Motorrad
    BMWMOA 162849 | BMWRA 41335 | VROC 8109-R | VBA 19

  6. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Kentucky
    Posts
    476
    Just drained drained my GS at 380 miles on the odometer. This is what came out. With the amount that didn't make it into the container it would have been 200cc . Have they changed the amount on the camheads? I see they added a breather. Or is 20cc over close enough with a breather?

    20130308_141827.jpg

    20130308_141852.jpg
    Last edited by sloride; 03-09-2013 at 12:57 AM.
    Anthony S.
    2012 R1200GS

  7. #37
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,702
    Looks normal...familiar. Relief valve?
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  8. #38
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    3,408
    I think he means the breather BMW added a while back.

  9. #39
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,702
    I figured, but did not know the drive has been vented.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  10. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Kentucky
    Posts
    476
    So sorry, breather it is
    Anthony S.
    2012 R1200GS

  11. #41
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,702
    Yes, i see it on the parts site now.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  12. #42
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake NJ, USA
    Posts
    7,710
    I wouldn't worry about what looks to be 10cc extra. Especially with the vented drive (since the original fill quantity was 220cc on the sealed drives..)

    What you might consider doing is several flushes of the drive with clean oil until the drained oil runs clear. If it was me - I'd probably use some inexpensive GL5 gear lube to do the flush, saving the good stuff for the final fill (others may want to spend their money other ways.. see "Conclusion #4" above.)
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

  13. #43
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    South Kentucky
    Posts
    476
    I wasn't worried about it. I was curious to know if the fill requirements had been changed with the camheads. there was probably 20 cc over.
    I'm surprised they haven't changed the requirements back to 220cc since adding a breather
    Anthony S.
    2012 R1200GS

  14. #44
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Urbana, IL
    Posts
    3,702
    Quote Originally Posted by sloride View Post
    I wasn't worried about it. I was curious to know if the fill requirements had been changed with the camheads. there was probably 20 cc over.
    I'm surprised they haven't changed the requirements back to 220cc since adding a breather
    Did we decide for sure that pressure on the big seal was the only reason for decreasing the oil level?
    ...no chance that some kind of foaming or oil slinging would starve any part of the drive?
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
    My other bike is a BMW.
    Jack Hawley MOA and RA #224, KE9UW ("Chuck")

  15. #45
    A bozo on the bus deilenberger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Spring Lake NJ, USA
    Posts
    7,710
    Quote Originally Posted by cjack View Post
    Did we decide for sure that pressure on the big seal was the only reason for decreasing the oil level?
    ...no chance that some kind of foaming or oil slinging would starve any part of the drive?
    Ah, if only BMW would tell us anything - but you know they won't.

    I'd make a WAG that the reduction in fill quantity was done in response to the much publicized "Iron-Butt Failures".. the several very public cases of failure where it appeared the oil forced out past the seal on the small end, outboard side of the crown-gear, starving the drive of any oil, which made them fail. I don't believe these failures were related to the large seal (inboard side) on the crown-gear.

    The more typical failure seen is of the big bearing on the wheel side of the crown gear, and that one isn't even in the oil - it mounts external to the drive. That bearing failing could very well cause the failure of the big-seal, which might then be misdiagnosed as the cause of the failure, when in reality - it was initially a bearing failure.

    I've heard of a few random pinion bearing failures - and those might be caused by lubrication breakdown since they're semi-internal (I believe they are sealed bearings.. so technically they wouldn't be lubed by the drive lube.)

    The only bearing I'm fairly certain IS lubed by the drive lubricant is the small-end needle bearing on the crown gear. While that does carry a weight load from the bike, there isn't any side load on it to speak of (the end of the gear can move horizontally in the needle bearing) and I haven't heard of these failing.

    So - without "the word" from BMW, I'm going by my WAG. Everyone else should do whatever THEY think is best and ignore the babbling of a raging baboon..
    Don Eilenberger http://www.eilenberger.net
    Spring Lk Heights NJ NJ Shore BMW Riders New Sweden BMW Riders
    '07 R1200R (current ride) and some bimmers.. and a Porsche

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •