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Thread: As The Crow Flies?

  1. #16
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pffog View Post
    The reward should be the trip, not your name on a piece of paper anyway. I do things the way I do for pleasure, not recognition.
    That is true of course. However, the various "pieces of paper" really do exist and the judging should be as accurate as possible. When we (me and Mary) go to a rally we stay put, as they say, and appreciate what so many have made possible and, beyond that, our trip is indeed the pleasure of the ride. I support your notion of "pleasure, not recognition" but some recognition of achievement, no matter the context, is 'nice'. Let's just keep it equitable and accurate. "As The Crow Flies" is not accurate and requires a more honest format IMO. - Bob
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  2. #17
    Polarbear Polarbear's Avatar
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    Just HOW?

    With thousands of riders at a rally and most probably riding off the path of a crow, longer zig zag touring, HOW would one find time to verify all the riders data, confirming miles travelled? Seems a huge issue, where the home address on registration and crow scenario is much easier to accomplish in a reasonable time frame. Of course the miles are much bigger for almost all of us, but logistics kind a keep the task simple. No time. GPSs do this tracking of course, all do not use 'em however. Those do, hoorah. Collecting a paper trail en route is cumbersome to prove your miles. Just seems the task of verifying all the riders miles would be more than a full time rally job for somebody. You volunteer. Randy

  3. #18
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarbear View Post
    With thousands of riders at a rally and most probably riding off the path of a crow, longer zig zag touring, HOW would one find time to verify all the riders data, confirming miles travelled? Seems a huge issue, where the home address on registration and crow scenario is much easier to accomplish in a reasonable time frame. Of course the miles are much bigger for almost all of us, but logistics kind a keep the task simple. No time. GPSs do this tracking of course, all do not use 'em however. Those do, hoorah. Collecting a paper trail en route is cumbersome to prove your miles. Just seems the task of verifying all the riders miles would be more than a full time rally job for somebody. You volunteer. Randy
    I don't think that it takes a lot of wizardry to do this. For instance, I use Microsoft Streets and Trips, eliminate ferry routes, take shortest route option and calculate (although the rider, of course, will venture here 'n' there along the route but that is not a considered factor). I think that is how the IBA does it. My view is that the current method of judging disregards reality. As far as the rally job, maybe my own role in this is to raise the point for discussion because as far as I can tell many riders thought that this mileage calculation was done following a roadway, as the IBA (for example again) does. Also note that only those interested in registering for consideration are tabulated rather than "thousands". - Bob
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  4. #19
    "Travel'in" John
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    Ya gotta love a new idea...

    Yes, you APPLY for the distance awards. Bob is correct, if you care to compete...you'll know "how far you've been" since leaving home of
    record & will have the records/proof to indicate the route & distance. Don't throw in a week layover at family/friends though...keep moving!
    Last years North American Tour winner went on a riding "rally tour" from appox May 1st until arriving at National... and we dont even have
    an award for the fact he arrived home, after his four month long "summer ride" on about Sept 1st!!! With Sedalia being the long layover
    of the near 15 rallys attended in 2012; thats living off the bike! Congrats to Ron Clark of PEI, Canada on a very well done R1200RT ride.
    My point is, these folks know how to "get around"; the straight line dosen't work from Marco Island, Fl across the Gulf of Mexico any better
    than from Halifax NS across the Bay of Fundy, to Salem... but the rider knows their distance to a rally if they care to compete.

  5. #20
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyhi2cfar View Post
    Yes, you APPLY for the distance awards. Bob is correct, if you care to compete...you'll know "how far you've been" since leaving home of
    record & will have the records/proof to indicate the route & distance. Don't throw in a week layover at family/friends though...keep moving!
    Last years North American Tour winner went on a riding "rally tour" from appox May 1st until arriving at National... and we dont even have
    an award for the fact he arrived home, after his four month long "summer ride" on about Sept 1st!!! With Sedalia being the long layover
    of the near 15 rallys attended in 2012; thats living off the bike! Congrats to Ron Clark of PEI, Canada on a very well done R1200RT ride.
    My point is, these folks know how to "get around"; the straight line dosen't work from Marco Island, Fl across the Gulf of Mexico any better
    than from Halifax NS across the Bay of Fundy, to Salem... but the rider knows their distance to a rally if they care to compete.
    Well John, maybe something will change regarding this. I honestly don't know what the problem is with using a recognized mapping program, using the exact same variables options in the program applied to all who wish to sign up for the competition (just like every other competition at the rally). It does not take any more energy or time to do it the right way and the right way has nothing to do with crows IMO. - Bob
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  6. #21
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    It is my understanding that not many MOA officials frequent the forum, although TexPaul does hang around a bit. So, if you want this concept to be given some consideration, I suggest you contact one of the Board members...their contact information is given on a section of the MOA website homepage.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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  7. #22
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    It is my understanding that not many MOA officials frequent the forum, although TexPaul does hang around a bit. So, if you want this concept to be given some consideration, I suggest you contact one of the Board members...their contact information is given on a section of the MOA website homepage.
    Timely suggestion Kurt. This morning my thought was to find out who would be most appropriate to send this suggestion to. I will follow-up accordingly. Posting here on the Forum helps to get other views on the subject as well as give an indication if the idea is 'on the right track'. I did suggest this last year directly at the rally but maybe I was speaking with the wrong folks. Anyway, I will, as you suggest, forward this on and then get back to this thread with the outcome.

    In the meantime, hearing the views of others, regarding this topic, remains encouraged. BTW, I find your observation that "not many MOA officials frequent the forum" to be interesting. This is a good place to get a sense about the views and. at times, concerns of many of the membership. - Bob
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  8. #23
    Registered User bikerhiker04's Avatar
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    As the bike rolls

    After doing some double checking, I'm happy to report that we will definitely be using appropriate mapping software to verify the distance from your home address to the rally. The choice of software has not been made yet, and of course the only fair way to measure will be using the "shortest route" function, but it won't be "as the crow flies".

    Please remember that YOU must go to the Awards and Tallies booth in the MOA building- better known as Columbia Hall in Salem, to register your name for consideration for any of the awards. We DO NOT take the information off the registration forms, contrary to what some folks assume. Look to the BMW ON and the Rally section of the website for more information about the awards and tallies.

    @Tourunigo - Looks like you have a good chance for long distance this year. Too bad you don't live up in Sydney or on Meat Cove huh?

    Rick Nelson
    2013 Rally Co-Chair
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    Operating on one cylinder by choice

  9. #24
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by bikerhiker04 View Post
    After doing some double checking, I'm happy to report that we will definitely be using appropriate mapping software to verify the distance from your home address to the rally. The choice of software has not been made yet, and of course the only fair way to measure will be using the "shortest route" function, but it won't be "as the crow flies".

    Please remember that YOU must go to the Awards and Tallies booth in the MOA building- better known as Columbia Hall in Salem, to register your name for consideration for any of the awards. We DO NOT take the information off the registration forms, contrary to what some folks assume. Look to the BMW ON and the Rally section of the website for more information about the awards and tallies.

    @Tourunigo - Looks like you have a good chance for long distance this year. Too bad you don't live up in Sydney or on Meat Cove huh?

    Rick Nelson
    2013 Rally Co-Chair
    Thanks Rick (2013 Rally Co-Chair) for all of your help and 2013 Rally Chair Deb Lower, working concurrently with Rick. While Mary and I cannot make it to Salem this year , it is good that this concern has been met with due consideration and resolution. Thank you both very much.

    And Rick, Sydney or Meat Cove won't snap up a Long Distance away from those adventuresome hooligans over in St. John's, Newfoundland! That's 4,469 miles to the rally. - Bob

    (and Kurt, thanks for your excellent suggestion!)
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  10. #25
    Former Club President DonHamblin's Avatar
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    The "Standard"

    This year we will be using Google Maps as our standard for appropriate mileage awards.

    The idea is to make sure that there are no surprises to those going after the awards (I know that i only like surprises at Christmas).

    Yes, if you do believe you are in the running for an award you will have to check in at the Awards Booth in the MOA Building. Current award "contestants" will be posted at that booth for your information. We will have a laptop handy (I am bringing my MacBook in my saddle bag, let's just hope it survives Kansas heat and Nebraska pot holes and we've got solid WiFi) so that you can watch us verify our validation of your mileage.

    That said, for "Long Distance" awards you will need to show us your driver license (just like voting or getting a speeding ticket in some states). Other awards will require us to see things like the motorcycle's registration / appropriate birth certificates / trip logs (including a few things like gas and hotel receipts) for validation. Do watch for a more indepth article coming in a future issue of the BMW ON and the Rally Page for details of award requirements.

    I know what it feels like having to wait for an announcement or "screen projection" of individual award winners, and I also know what it feels like to "know better" after an announcement, so we want to be open, honest and fair.

    Please post any further comments, suggestions, concerns, etc., to this thread. If you want to discuss any specific details, please contact me directly for discussion. Yep, I do respond.

    Don

    Don Hamblin
    Awards Co-Chair
    Beemers, Bigfoot and Blue Skies - 2013 MOA Rally

  11. #26
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Just something that I noticed with Google Maps: I put in Halifax, Nova Scotia to Salem, OR and it would only let me track to Salem, Mass. I tried inputting a few times and had the same result by choosing their drop down menu option. I have had some destination problems with that program before but usually with my phone. I suggest a few tests of locales just to be sure.

    Tested again and found that I had to type Salem, Oregon and not choose the abbreviated Salem, OR option. So, I guess that's a "heads up" point.

    Again, thanks for the great coordinated effort! PM SENT re: additional point. - Bob
    Last edited by tourunigo; 03-05-2013 at 07:04 PM.
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  12. #27
    "Travel'in" John
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    Nice...

    ....Thank You Don; and others that will assist you in the "new" format of calculation. Hope that laptop hold's up!!!!

  13. #28
    Registered User tourunigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flyhi2cfar View Post
    ....Thank You Don; and others that will assist you in the "new" format of calculation. Hope that laptop hold's up!!!!
    So John, are you from Florida or Kentucky when you sign up ? Seriously, Mary and I are wishing that we could be in Salem this year but not possible. Enjoy (I think that you are going?). - Bob
    Last edited by tourunigo; 03-06-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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  14. #29
    Rally Rat
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    MOA officials

    Quote Originally Posted by 20774 View Post
    It is my understanding that not many MOA officials frequent the forum, although TexPaul does hang around a bit. So, if you want this concept to be given some consideration, I suggest you contact one of the Board members...their contact information is given on a section of the MOA website homepage.
    I wouldn't be too sure about saying that. The board members that I know monitor the Forum frequently. They don't always reply to a thread, but certainly note what's being discussed!
    Boxerbruce

  15. #30
    Administrator 20774's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1074 View Post
    I wouldn't be too sure about saying that. The board members that I know monitor the Forum frequently. They don't always reply to a thread, but certainly note what's being discussed!
    Bruce -

    You're right. I don't know the board members and their usernames, and if they don't post, it's difficult to know they were even here. I took the time to compare the MOA ON masthead where it lists the board members and volunteer staff and tracked most of them down. There are 2-3 that don't even have a username that I could tell. There are another 2-3 that haven't been on the forum on years or at all and have never posted. Of the remaining 75% of the staff, most have visited the forum in the past two months.

    So that's great...it appears that board members are around and see what's going on being discussed. But with typically no posts or responses, how do we know that they were really here? If a tree falls in the forest....

    There are a lot of good ideas (and some bad, too) that the members float and have discussions on. It sure would be nice to see some tangible evidence that this is being considered.
    Kurt -- Forum Administrator ---> Resources and Links Thread <---
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