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Thread: Starting Woes

  1. #31
    It's a way of life! oldnslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by der ziegelstein View Post
    Yes, all of that dirt was poured out of a spark plug. It was in the space between the electrode and the body. I got the same amount out of the other one.
    Perhaps the dirt is a 'red herring'. You took out old plugs, which did not have dirt in them, then put new ones in, and the bike has not run with the new plugs, correct? I take a WAG that when fitting the new plugs into the hole, dirt from the channel in the heads that leads to the hole was knocked loose and into the spark plugs. You may be very lucky that the motor didn't start with this dirt introduced into the engine!

    I take another WAG that there is another reason the bike wont turn over, unrelated to the 'dirt' since it 'froze up' with the old plugs still in it at your work last January. I suspect some sort of mis alignment with the starter causing it to drag?



    If my facts, as I understand them, are wrong, then never mind!
    Mike Davis
    "Old n Slow" It's a way of life!
    1985 K100RT

    1998 R1100RT

  2. #32
    It's a way of life! oldnslow's Avatar
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    Another thought to keep in mind is that 'something' "wore out'' and probably didn't 'break', due to the fact that the problem got progressively worse over time.

    Are you able to turn the motor over with a big wrench on the crankshaft bolt? Like I said earlier, trying to turn the motor over with the rear wheel was quite a chore, I had to sit behind the bike and pull with both hands while the girl held the bike.
    Mike Davis
    "Old n Slow" It's a way of life!
    1985 K100RT

    1998 R1100RT

  3. #33
    It's a way of life! oldnslow's Avatar
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    ok, last thought ...maybe the alternator is froze up?, preventing the engine from turning over. The internals may have been slowly binding and finally seized? Take the belt off and see if it frees up the motor?

    I just think the dirt is not the problem, But if I am wrong, I will be the first in line to admit it.
    Mike Davis
    "Old n Slow" It's a way of life!
    1985 K100RT

    1998 R1100RT

  4. #34
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    Well...here's two dumb questions that haven't been covered, yet....have you absolutely,positively checked to see if maybe you don't have a bad ground connection? How does the starter react turning over the motor with the plugs out?

  5. #35
    Left Coast Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnslow View Post
    Like I said earlier, trying to turn the motor over with the rear wheel was quite a chore, I had to sit behind the bike and pull with both hands while the girl held the bike.
    "...I had to sit behind the bike and pull with both hands..."

    Were you turning the wheel backwards? If yes, it might explain your difficulty - you were turning the engine backwards, too. If no, hopefully you were in 4th gear or higher with the plugs out. I've found that makes it much easier to turn over the engine using this method.

    Now, back to the original issue....
    Last edited by BC1100S; 04-17-2013 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BC1100S View Post
    "...I had to sit behind the bike and pull with both hands..."

    Were you turning the wheel backwards? If yes, it might explain your difficulty - you were turning the engine backwards, too. If no, hopefully you were in 4th gear or higher with the plugs out. I've found that makes it much easier to turn over the engine using this method.

    Now, back to the original issue....
    yeah, should not be that hard to turn the motor over using rear wheel. i'm approaching 60, and can still one hand mine- going in correct direction, plugs out, 5th or 6th gear.

    as to the starting issue; i'm leaning towards the "dirt" being schmutz from the canister. not totally sure as to how that is impacting the starting issue. however, if you truly can't turn the motor over, even with plugs out, consider what could be preventing that. interference at valves? broken cam chain?
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  7. #37
    Brick Pilot der ziegelstein's Avatar
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    Found the source of the "dirt"

    I've torn apart a few engines and have never seen buildup like this. It just flakes off and the cylinder bore looks fine. I still need to remove the right side head and clean everything up and then find the source of the binding.
    Left Piston.jpg
    Jim McGill
    '87 K100RS
    '04 R1150RT

  8. #38
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    You have an oil slurper there. Way too much carbon.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  9. #39
    It's a way of life! oldnslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerfish1100 View Post
    yeah, should not be that hard to turn the motor over using rear wheel. i'm approaching 60, and can still one hand mine- going in correct direction, plugs out, 5th or 6th gear.
    I am justa little girly man!
    Mike Davis
    "Old n Slow" It's a way of life!
    1985 K100RT

    1998 R1100RT

  10. #40
    BMW Rider
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldnslow View Post
    I am justa little girly man!
    Uh oh, is that a sexist statement?

  11. #41
    Registered User Olsensan's Avatar
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    Look like you'll need new rings and possibly honing the cylinders at least. Glad that you have finally found the culprit to the crap dropping from the plug holes.

  12. #42
    Brick Pilot der ziegelstein's Avatar
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    The cylinder bores actually look really good. I do not plan on removing the pistons at this point and I am not convinced the buildup is from oil either. Could it possibly be from excessive amounts of injector cleaner and other unknown chemicals used to fix the problem that turned out to be a bad coil?

    I like the idea of the alternator, that makes a lot of sense since the problem seemed at first to be electrical then turned mechanical. Tonight when I get home I will pull the right side head and see if I can rotate the engine, if not I will go after the alternator.

    Everything I have seen so far with the engine looks fine (aside from the buildup) mechanically everything is sound.
    Jim McGill
    '87 K100RS
    '04 R1150RT

  13. #43
    Brick Pilot der ziegelstein's Avatar
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    Both heads are off and the alternator spins free. The only way I can get the engine to budge is by a hammer and block of wood on the piston and then it only barely moves. I' ll have a look at the auxiliary drive shaft chain but it's looking like the engine will have to come out. Fun stuff.
    Jim McGill
    '87 K100RS
    '04 R1150RT

  14. #44
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Oh boy this has turned nasty for you. Sorry to hear what you found but at least now you know I guess. It it comes down to it there is a good runner in the Flea Market right now. https://www.bmwmoa.org/fleamarket/ta...gs-engine.aspx

    Only difference in a GS engine vs RT engine is the pistons as far as I know. The GS engine pistons have different facing and the motor has 2 or 3 lbs lower compression ratio. I put GS cylinders and pistons on my 96 RT when one of the cylinders cracked at the base. Noticed zero difference other than it ran a lot better.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  15. #45
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Happy Wanderer View Post
    Oh boy this has turned nasty for you. Sorry to hear what you found but at least now you know I guess. It it comes down to it there is a good runner in the Flea Market right now. https://www.bmwmoa.org/fleamarket/ta...gs-engine.aspx

    Only difference in a GS engine vs RT engine is the pistons as far as I know. The GS engine pistons have different facing and the motor has 2 or 3 lbs lower compression ratio. I put GS cylinders and pistons on my 96 RT when one of the cylinders cracked at the base. Noticed zero difference other than it ran a lot better.
    Heads are different RT= 3 bolts exhaust, GS = 2 bolts
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

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