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Thread: R1100 Final Drive Question

  1. #1
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    R1100 Final Drive Question

    old info but still current. thanks all. going with the LM47...

    I cracked the FD on my 99 R1100S open and bearings, races and gears are all good but there was some play. does that make sense? or am i missing something that has added up to this play?

    one other question - if there are 2 shims in there - does that mean this was shimmed by previous owner? bearing has 19 balls. fludi pretty clean and no metal aside from norm.

    (sorry if i may have hijacked a thread and the pic is huge...)

    FD Apart.jpg

  2. #2
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    Gear backlash (normal) or bearing looseness (axle or pinion)? Be sure to place the thicker of the two shims towards the face that has a slot in it. Two axle bearing shims are normal.

    May be a good time to arbitrarily replace the crown bearing and check the preload anyway.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  3. #3
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    To achieve the proper preload, a combination of shims may have to be used. It is not an indication of someone else in there later.

    Here is the list as per MAX:
    02 33 12 2 310 544 SHIM - 0,100MM 1 Sale $8.45ADD TO CART
    Part Thumbnail

    02 33 12 2 310 545 SHIM - 0,150MM 1 Sale $8.45ADD TO CART

    02 33 12 2 310 546 SHIM - 0,200MM 0.01 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 547 SHIM - 0,300MM 0.01 1 Sale $8.45ADD TO CART

    02 33 12 2 310 548 SHIM - 0,400MM 0.01 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 549 SHIM - 0,500MM 0.02 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 550 SHIM - 0,600MM 0.02 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 551 SHIM - 0,700MM 0.02 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 552 SHIM - 0,800MM 0.02 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 553 SHIM - 0,900MM 0.03 1 Sale $8.45ADD TO CART
    Part Thumbnail

    02 33 12 2 310 554 SHIM - 1,000MM 0.03 1 Sale $8.45ADD TO CART

    02 33 12 2 310 555 SHIM - 1,100MM 0.03 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 556 SHIM - 1,200MM 0.04 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 557 SHIM - 1,300MM 0.04 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 558 SHIM - 1,400MM 0.04 1 $12.07ADD TO CART
    02 33 12 2 310 559 SHIM - 1,500MM 0.05 1 Sale $8.45ADD TO CART

    02 33 12 2 310 560 SHIM - 1,600MM 0.05 1

    As far as checking the shimming goes there are few ways to do it.
    Google it and you'll find lot's.
    I prefer to use the solder method. It has worked well for me. I have re-shimmed quite a few now with no issues.

    The 19 ball bearing is the latest.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  4. #4
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    For reference, the switch from the 19 ball FRA or FAG bearings to the 17 ball SKF bearing was only temporary - it lasted about six months. I believe BMW was investigating the quality of the bearings they were receiving and switched until they were satisfied that failures were not being causesd by bad bearings. They soon switched back after a few months.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  5. #5
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    For reference, the switch from the 19 ball FRA or FAG bearings to the 17 ball SKF bearing was only temporary - it lasted about six months. I believe BMW was investigating the quality of the bearings they were receiving and switched until they were satisfied that failures were not being causesd by bad bearings. They soon switched back after a few months.
    Now that explains a lot! Thanks.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

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    thanks, all.

    1 - I have a few sale shims on order from MAX and will advise when this is all back together. should be simple, hmmm?

    2 - I have yet to find the solder technique. I tried the dial caliper/heated cover/slide the crown assy/bearing up and down technique but the readings do not add up.

    3- the thicker shim goes on the outside of the assembly next to the cover, right? that is where the machined groove is, I believe.

  7. #7
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    Use as small dia solder as possible (.050" ?) - I'd suggest three of them distributed around the perimeter oriented radially, & take the average thickness reading from a good micrometer for shim calculation. Too thick dia solder will give an excessive preload in itself

    The reason for the thickest shim being next to the slot, is there was a unit pictured a couple of years ago where the thin shim had collapsed and folded out into that slot.

    I'm not a FD expert. I learned a little bit from Curtiss of CharlieVT. He did my FD.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  8. #8
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Use 1mm solder and assemble dry with NO shims.
    Torque the cover to spec. and disassemble.
    Measure the flattened thickness in several places and add Preload:.......... 0.05...0.1 mm (0.0020 ... 0.0039 in)
    That is your shim combination






    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  9. #9
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    To yield that amount of solder there would be a helluva lot of preload, and maybe even brinelling the bearing!

    I was advocating three short (like 3/16" long) pieces of small dia solder.

    Expert comments please............!
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  10. #10
    Pepperfool GSAddict's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nrpetersen View Post
    To yield that amount of solder there would be a helluva lot of preload, and maybe even brinelling the bearing!

    I was advocating three short (like 3/16" long) pieces of small dia solder.

    Expert comments please............!
    Have compared 3 methods on the same drive ending with the same preload results.
    Success speaks for itself. I have done several.
    The solder is very soft, brinelling is not an issue. The bearing sees much higher pressures in normal loading and operation.
    '
    Ufda happens..........

    It's all about the details.

  11. #11
    Registered User ANDYVH's Avatar
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    Zoomtoob, what type of "play" did it exhibit and what are the miles on your bike?

    My 94RS now has 170K on it, and I'm still riding the original final drive assembly (167K of those miles are mine as the 2nd owner). Only work ever done on the FD is regular biseasonal drain and refill of the 75W90 GL5 full synthetic fluid. I had some play at the wheel a while back that actually was the swingarm bearings failing. Since replacing the swingarm bearings with bushings I have no play.

    So my question again is, what type of play and why did you take it apart if all seemed ok?
    Woodenshoe to Cheesehead

  12. #12
    Curmudgeon nrpetersen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GSAddict View Post
    The bearing sees much higher pressures in normal loading and operation.
    I see no reason for this bearing to have more than say 500 - 1000 lbs of axial preload in operation. The reason it is preloaded in the first place is to provide an accurate axis for the gearset for low gear noise.

    With .041" dia 60/40 solder under ~500 lbs force, I measured a dia reduction from .041 to .027 with about a 2 " length between two pieces of MoMax tool steel. Though ~7 times longer, your reduction appears to be less, fortunately.

    Anyone using solder be careful to get the small 1 mm (,040") stuff and be careful to duplicate the amount of observed squeeze.
    Retired w 2005 K1200LT, 2000 R1100RT, & 1975 R90/6

  13. #13
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    Andy, there was play. The wheel rocked very slightly and I could swear it was the fd and not a swingarm bearing. All the bearings are fine. now it's back together I have to test drive and recheck.

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