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Thread: Any Alternatives to the weight of the RT ?

  1. #31
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    Another choice is Honda's new CTX700.

    http://powersports.honda.com/2014/ctx700.aspx

  2. #32
    Registered User PittsDriver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jforgo View Post
    Looking at these responses confirms to me that modern bikes have largely become too porky! (Following population physical trends perhaps?) Easy to see why people hang on to their Airheads, with the very heaviest one being the R100RT 1981-84 at a mere 525# soaking wet! A bike is supposed to be fun, not work. The work factor seems to increase with the weight, especially in urban or very tight twisty environments.
    On top of that, if you ride alone, can you pick your bke up by yourself if you dump it? This may seem "old school" to some, but I just don't consider it prudent to be riding something you cannot pick up and push by yourself. Unless, of course, you are strictly a "pack rider".
    You might take this as just me being defensive about my bike - whatever. Take a look at this graph and compare the area under the curve for the K1600. I don't know, but that looks like it ought to be a lot of fun - and it is. I've been known to spank the kneepuck draggin' sport bike guys in the hillbilly twisties and with a torque curve that starts at a value that all others top out and, well, that just makes it too easy to have that kind of fun. If you don't believe me go ride one. It rides like a bike that is a couple a hundred lbs lighter than it is, it has all the state of the art touring goodies, looks great, and yes, no one yet has figured out how to do all that cheaply.

    Wes Jones
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  3. #33
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    I'm 66. Bought my RT a year ago and I was largely influenced by the light weight when compared to other sport/luxury tourers.

    But when I can't be trusted to hold my RT up any longer, I'll look at one of these:
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  4. #34
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jforgo View Post
    Looking at these responses confirms to me that modern bikes have largely become too porky! (Following population physical trends perhaps?) Easy to see why people hang on to their Airheads, with the very heaviest one being the R100RT 1981-84 at a mere 525# soaking wet! A bike is supposed to be fun, not work. The work factor seems to increase with the weight, especially in urban or very tight twisty environments.
    On top of that, if you ride alone, can you pick your bke up by yourself if you dump it? This may seem "old school" to some, but I just don't consider it prudent to be riding something you cannot pick up and push by yourself. Unless, of course, you are strictly a "pack rider".
    Admittedly a lot of bikes are heavy, but when riding and when on the balance point stopped you will not feel that weight. When riding large bikes in twisties, there is some mass physics at work, and the bikes may not roll around their CG point as quickly as a lighter bike. Rake angle of the forks, the resulting trail, and width of the handlebars has a huge impact on maneuverability irrespective of bike weight. Choppers suck at maneuverability for a reason!

    If you drop one, it could be an issue, but if you know the trick to picking up a bike that is not an issue either. I have 95 pound petite women in my classes who can pick up a loaded Harley Ultra, or LT if you prefer, after they know the technique.

    A lot of the complaints with heavy bikes and slow maneuvering speed is, again, lack of training or skill in this area. People complain that the RT is hard to maneuver at low speed because it is "top heavy". If you know the technique it is very, very easy to ride at amazingly slow speed. Ditto for any other large bike up to and including the big Harley Ultras. A lot of the HD crowd cannot make the 20' wide "box" in the limited space maneuver. It is very easy to do with proper training. (Hint: You need to be in the friction zone and slightly above walking speed to let the bike hold itself up when leaned over for the turn).

    Please consider taking some refresher training courses. They are a lot of fun, and you probably will learn stuff you never knew.

    BTW: My 2011 RT is 571 pounds soaking wet, with 110 HP, and is, shall we say, "peppy" .

    I also agree with Pittsdriver and the K1600 data. That bike can do stuff in 6th gear without downshifting that is amazing. The inline-6 is an amazing powerplant, as are all BMW 6's.
    Last edited by ka5ysy; 02-24-2013 at 02:26 PM.
    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norms 427 View Post
    I'm 66.

    ....But when I can't be trusted to hold my RT up any longer, I'll look at one of these:
    I dunno, Norms. Have you "ridden" one of those? They're not like a motorcycle at all because you don't lean into turns and centrifugal force flings you out. It's basically just a three wheel convertible only less comfortable w/o AC, heat, or the benefit of the top when it rains. Having three wheels with three different tracks it's hard to avoid a pothole. Also they tend to "wander" on roads with a raised crown in the center. May as well just get a Elio. http://www.eliomotors.com/
    14 R1200GSA, 93 R100R. No car is as fun to drive as any motorcycle is to ride.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
    A lot of the complaints with heavy bikes and slow maneuvering speed is, again, lack of training or skill in this area. People complain that the RT is hard to maneuver at low speed because it is "top heavy". If you know the technique it is very, very easy to ride at amazingly slow speed. Ditto for any other large bike up to and including the big Harley Ultras. A lot of the HD crowd cannot make the 20' wide "box" in the limited space maneuver. It is very easy to do with proper training. (Hint: You need to be in the friction zone and slightly above walking speed to let the bike hold itself up when leaned over for the turn).

    Please consider taking some refresher training courses. They are a lot of fun, and you probably will learn stuff you never knew.
    You could be right here in some cases. But, if you are short and old and an urban rider, the height and weight issues with the RT are real and you often run into situations where that is the case. We are not talking about being able to pick the bike up, or do a slow-speed u-turn in a parking lot. You can't just brush it off as lack of skill or training.
    Last edited by themayer; 02-25-2013 at 03:47 AM.
    Bill Mayer
    R1200RT

  7. #37
    2011 R1200RT ka5ysy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themayer View Post
    You could be right here in some cases. But, if you are short and old and an urban rider, the height and weight issues with the RT are real and you often run into situations where that is the case. We are not talking about being able to pick the bike up, or do a slow-speed u-turn in a parking lot. You can't just brush it off as lack of skill or training.
    Again, this is a rider issue. Why would you run into any situation where that would become an issue? One of the skills of riding a motorcycle is to quickly analyze the roadway surface you are getting into. Short folks do have issues with relatively tall bikes, but I have seen a lot of old, short riders dump low-suspension bikes because they do not know how to ride slowly and stay off the front brake when maneuvering in a parking lot.

    I know a BMW R1200 GS Adventure rider who is in his 70's and is vertically challenged at around 5'6" and has absolutely no difficulty handling the beast. I can barely get the balls of my feet down on that bike, but he simply slides off one side and puts a foot down. It is all technique and training, nothing magic at all.
    Doug, 2011 R1200RT Polar Metallic
    MSF #127350 NAUI #36288

  8. #38
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norms 427 View Post
    I'm 66. Bought my RT a year ago and I was largely influenced by the light weight when compared to other sport/luxury tourers.

    But when I can't be trusted to hold my RT up any longer, I'll look at one of these:
    I considered a Spyder before I got a Maxi-Scooter. I talked to the dealer, owners and went on forums dedicated to them. I decided that they were not my cup of tea. The dealer representative admitted that the switch for a long time rider is difficult because they don't lean in curves and it is easier for a newbie to adjust. He also admitted that the biggest complaint is fuel mileage as many owners are getting from the mid 20s to around 30 MPG. Also, the one I liked had a MSRP of over $26,000.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    I considered a Spyder before I got a Maxi-Scooter. I talked to the dealer, owners and went on forums dedicated to them. I decided that they were not my cup of tea. The dealer representative admitted that the switch for a long time rider is difficult because they don't lean in curves and it is easier for a newbie to adjust. He also admitted that the biggest complaint is fuel mileage as many owners are getting from the mid 20s to around 30 MPG. Also, the one I liked had a MSRP of over $26,000.
    i'll second that. my g/f has one which she purchased after taking the MSF BRC course, but not quite taking to the leaning thing. she had plenty experience with quads, and fins the Spydie to be perfect. for me, it's fun and different, but the differences are extreme! all my sensory input (eyes, hands, butt, EVERYthing) says "bike", until its time to steer the thing (or to use the non-existent front brake lever!).
    bottom line- if you have lots quad experience, teh learning curve won't be so bad. if you have only lots of m/c experience, you might find that learning curve pretty disconcerting.
    but a Spidey is still more fun and motorcyclish than a convertible!
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  10. #40
    Norm Norms 427's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by milo View Post
    I dunno, Norms. Have you "ridden" one of those? They're not like a motorcycle at all because you don't lean into turns and centrifugal force flings you out. It's basically just a three wheel convertible only less comfortable w/o AC, heat, or the benefit of the top when it rains. Having three wheels with three different tracks it's hard to avoid a pothole. Also they tend to "wander" on roads with a raised crown in the center. May as well just get a Elio. http://www.eliomotors.com/
    No, I haven't ridden a CanAm but I've owned a Ural for 2 years and 18,000 km. I agree that 3 wheels is nothing like 2 wheels ... but they're still fun in their own, VERY unique way.

    You know, on second thought, I think I'll just keep riding my Ural when the day comes to give up 2 wheels ...

    Last edited by Norms 427; 02-25-2013 at 04:26 PM.
    Now: '12 R1200RT Midnight Blue Metallic / '11 Ural Patrol 2WD ridden to Alaska / '09 KLR 650 / '05 HD Heritage Softail / '08 Harley Sportster 1200C / '85 Yamaha VMax bought new. I wasn't ready to say goodbye: www.shaunlunt.typepad.com

  11. #41
    Registered User cowboyatheart's Avatar
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    Funny

    But no one has mentioned Trikes. Why is that? Not that I have one, but it seems to me they were the first three wheeled, other than sidecar, that were produced.
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyatheart View Post
    But no one has mentioned Trikes. Why is that? Not that I have one, but it seems to me they were the first three wheeled, other than sidecar, that were produced.
    Between a standard configuration trike and a Spyder.. i'd go with a Spyder, no questions. Handling and associated technologies are better, nature of steering is pretty much the same.
    And, for comparable machines, cost is better on the Spydie.
    Ride Safe, Ride Lots

  13. #43
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyatheart View Post
    But no one has mentioned Trikes. Why is that? Not that I have one, but it seems to me they were the first three wheeled, other than sidecar, that were produced.
    When I think trike, I have flashbacks of Laugh-In and I remember reports of accidents of 3 wheeled ATVs.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ka5ysy View Post
    Short folks do have issues with relatively tall bikes
    Bingo! Not so much not being able to deal with those issues, one just gets to the point of not wanting to struggle with them on a daily basis. Why just jump to the conclusion that there's a lack of skill or training? You are probably young (for a BMW rider) and tall and have no idea what it's like to be old and short. Yeah, I've ridden bikes where I have had to slide off to one side to put a foot down, but wouldn't want to do it on a regular basis.

    I applaud your advocacy for ongoing skills training. I have just been trying to put forward the perspective of why old, short guys would be looking around for a shorter, lighter bike to do what our excellent RT's do. It's just another iteration of guys looking for the perfect bike that does everything. A futile search, but fun.
    Bill Mayer
    R1200RT

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