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Thread: Battery life extension EDTA source

  1. #1
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    Question Battery life extension EDTA source

    Is anyone using EDTA in their flooded (wet cell) batteries? Is there a reasonable source for this stuff?
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Cave Creek AZ 85k100lt's Avatar
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    Question What is EDTA??

    Wet Cell flooded battery - like a lead acid battery what are you using this type of battery in??
    I use a gel Cell Odessey PC680 in my 1974 airhead. Half the size of the original and battery can be removed / installed without a hassel. Work great 5+ years of service.


    Plus no corrosive Acid to leak on my frame.





    oh wait wikipedia is my friend:

    Ethylenediaminetetraacetic acid -- softens water - water wetter type of solution.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethylen...traacetic_acid
    1974 R75/6 W Sidecar
    1989 R100GS


  3. #3
    Registered User arthurdent's Avatar
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    Stuff is relatively cheap. I get lots of it for buffer solutions in DNA and protein electrophoresis labs. I don't think it is controlled at all. Talk to a lab tech for the amount you'll need (less than 25 grams).

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    Registered User rxcrider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 85K100LT View Post
    I use a gel Cell Odessey PC680 in my 1974 airhead...
    Off topic, but the Odyssey batteries are AGM batteies, not gel batteries.

    http://www.odysseybattery.com/batteries.html
    Last edited by rxcrider; 02-11-2013 at 09:39 PM. Reason: opinion removal

  5. #5
    God? What god? roborider's Avatar
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    Amazon sells EDTA.
    Rob C. , Raleigh, NC
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    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    I think we need to page GlobalRider.
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  7. #7
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    I've never used it in a battery but here's the background

    Name - Ethylene Diamine Tetracetic Acid
    Action - A chelator for divalent ions like Calcium and Magnesium found in hard water or seawater

    Use: A common ingredient in many lotion products from sunscreens to handcreems and detergents where its ability to bind Ca and Mg can prevent emulsions from breaking (eg turning a sunscreen lotion into a ropey looking disgusting messs if you get a few drops of seawater in it)
    Prevents hard water from messing up cleaning products action.
    Many other uses in lab work in many standard lab procedures, especially in biochem/molecular biology/cell culture labs

    I assume its purpose for batteries would be to remove Ca or Mg ions from water to be added- they are known to diminish battery life- you don't want your lead / sulfuric acid battery to become a mix of sulfate salts of Mg and Ca.

    But why not just buy a jug of distilled water instead. Dirt cheap at any grocery store and totally fee of those pesky ions (you'd have to have really hard water like over 1000 ppm hardness and putting a lot of it in your battery for it to matter much, especially given the low cost of flooded batteries)

    This proposed use of EDTA is an old one but I've not seen any decent data supporting it. It is based on science logic but that doesn't automatically make it sensible. I'll stick to distilled water....
    Last edited by racer7; 02-13-2013 at 02:31 AM.

  8. #8
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    Thank you for all the responses!
    Even when you use distilled water, you still end up getting sulfation. The EDTA is supposed to keep the crud from building up on the plates, keeping them clear and functionung. Once there is the buildup on the plates, the battery funtcion diminishes, and they soon die. Not sure what the exact chemical process happening is.



    So where can I buy a quantity of this seemingly innocuous useful stuff?
    Last edited by jforgo; 02-15-2013 at 04:52 AM.

  9. #9
    Cam Killer marchyman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jforgo View Post
    So where can I buy a quantity of this seemingly innocuous useful stuff?
    $35/pound here: http://www.kenneke.com/edta.html

    It's a site I found with a google search for "battery edta". Haven't a clue if it's good or bad, expensive or cheap, etc.

  10. #10
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    As I'm involved in a number of things, I saw a demonstration on a product called Inox- I think it was from Australia. I was impressed with the claims of longer battery life and the product was mainly directed towards the marine industry. The site I had bookmarked for it has gone cold but it was a product the looked like it was worth a try. I don't know if it was EDTA of not. OM
    "Well they say.. time loves a hero but only time will tell.. If he's real, he's a legend from heaven If he ain't he was sent here from hell" Lowell George
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  11. #11
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    This is simple chemistry and points out why batteries need to be made pure lead and distilled water and (an effective catalyst if an AGM like the Odyssey)

    Most batteries include recycled lead which has small amounts of Ca because it is used in some types of lead products (even old type mainteance free batteries). Hard water has more calcium and magnesium which you can add to a flooded battery. Seawater has very large amounts amounts of magnesium and can readily kill a battery if a contaminant

    Lead sulfate forms slowly in batteries and can eventually kill one through a short. Lead sulfate is disrupted and effectively "removed" by pulse chargers BUT magnesium or clacium salts in the batteries if enough are present are likely to interfere with this due to the chemical properties of lead sulfate.

    So the only logical place EDTA can help is if a flooded battery is badly made and contains extra Calcium fromn the get go or a flooded battery gets contaminated by seawater or hard water. Any other potential benefit is trivial as proven by long live of well made batteries properly treated. Nothing will cause a battery to last forever and if EDTA were a substantial benefit it would have been in use by battery makers already.

    Remember also that EDTA is an organic compound and its stability in strong acids matters. Is it stable in battery acid for 6 ot 8 years? Remember what battery acid does to your oranic cotton jeans?

    I am aware of demos showing adding EDTA to a battery that is dead which can then be recharged, There is no real data in those demos (whixh go back more than 20 years) about the state of the battery being used, the waveform of the charger or anything else that makes them even remotely scientific. If you care to provide a link to one I will point out what makes it unpersuasive or more bluntly, rigged to deceive like the demos of cleaners and other stuff shown on TV.

    This is a lot like oil additive commercials and if you're among the gullible, have at it.

    For me, sm science Ph.D. and long industrial chemistry career makes me a skeptic - show me real data from real science if you want me to be a believer. I'll stick to my Odysseys which make additive irrelevant or to well made flooded batteries maintained with distilled water. (As all of you should know, batteries in good condition that are well made use little to no water in normal use- having to add a lot of water is a sign a bettery is being abused or is on its way out and needs replacement).

  12. #12
    Outlander Omega Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by racer7 View Post
    .......you're among the gullible, have at it.

    For me, sm science Ph.D. and long industrial chemistry career makes me a skeptic - show me real data from real science if you want me to be a believer. I'll stick to my Odysseys which make additive irrelevant or to well made flooded batteries maintained with distilled water. (As all of you should know, batteries in good condition that are well made use little to no water in normal use- having to add a lot of water is a sign a bettery is being abused or is on its way out and needs replacement).
    Hmmm, I don't consider myself gullible but do believe that new products come along that are worth taking a peek at. In my experience, not all batteries that use water are on there way out. A quick example would be the large bank of Trojan deep cycle that are in the motorhome. The fill/check interval for those is about every two months. Gary
    "Well they say.. time loves a hero but only time will tell.. If he's real, he's a legend from heaven If he ain't he was sent here from hell" Lowell George
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