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Thread: Canada Recall - New 2013 R1200GS (Wethead)

  1. #16
    Ponch ponch1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by espressoforyou View Post
    I am not saying anything bad abut BMW. It is just the first year production of any new product has bound to have some bugs in it. I would imagine that car manufactures can do a lot more testing on new vehicles that are being introduced because they can spread the cost of testing among hundreds of thousands vehicles expected to be sold. Bike manufactures do not have the luxury of spreading the cost out among that many bikes, so they are forced to do less pre-introduction testing.

    The wethead will be a great bike I am sure. But I would not want to buy the first year production model, based on the past experience of my 2005 r1200gs. My main riding buddy bought a 2005 GS like mine with a six month later production date and has had zero problems with his bike.
    May be the day of the week matters. Mondays can be rough during Octoberfest.
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  2. #17
    rsbeemer 22600's Avatar
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    Question

    I have no input to this; I've never owned a new bike with a warranty but I do have a question.
    First of all let me say I know all or most motorcycle manufactures have recalls and problems with new models.
    I know some of you must own newer motorcycles other than BMW's, so you have experience with BMW AG and whatever other motorcycle company whose bike you own.
    Do you think that BMW AG or the other company pays more attention to the recurring problems that you may have on your bikes? Or, are they all about the same?
    And I'm not talking about the local BMW shops; they have always treated me well and fairly.
    The only problem I ever had was diode boards back when, but there seems to be more these days.
    DW
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  3. #18
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    Let me say this: I don't know if I'm correct or not but I wouldn't be surprised if they have had a recall on every single model they've released in the past few years. I've actually thought for a few years the customer base is the R&D department. That statement cannot be too far from the truth given their history. That is why I say you need to be patient with BMW and most likely they'll get everything worked out sooner or later. For a worldwide company that sells a handful of motorcycles their recall record is nothing short of incredible. Incredibly bad.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by 22600 View Post
    I have no input to this; I've never owned a new bike with a warranty but I do have a question.
    First of all let me say I know all or most motorcycle manufactures have recalls and problems with new models.
    I know some of you must own newer motorcycles other than BMW's, so you have experience with BMW AG and whatever other motorcycle company whose bike you own.
    Do you think that BMW AG or the other company pays more attention to the recurring problems that you may have on your bikes? Or, are they all about the same?
    And I'm not talking about the local BMW shops; they have always treated me well and fairly.
    The only problem I ever had was diode boards back when, but there seems to be more these days.
    DW
    I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to BMW NA/AG so you may want to speak with others and take what I have to say with a grain of salt if you feel it is appropriate.

    All companies are familiar with recalls. A year or so ago BMW was fined for the improper handling of recall procedures. The recall was concerning 16 vehicles total, 15 of which were motorcycles. Recalls are always related to potential safety issues. What's sad is the number of BMW models that have been recalled. BMW seems to be in a perpetual state of recall on their motorcycles. I've come to believe the BMW customer base is the R&D department for BMW AG. BMW is a very small player in the world of motorcycles yet their recall situations seem to defy gravity. In addition, recurring problems seem to be a very real issue with them. The accuracy of this statement however is really unknown as no one is really certain how many recurring failures they seem to have. Those numbers are not published. So your mileage may vary here. And, as long as you don't get either killed or maimed with your recall life is good once the repair is completed.

    In addition, BMW is well known for continuing to sell product with known exceptionally high failure rates. Think fuel strips here. Maybe they needed to get them out of inventory I don't know. My guess is somehow it improved their P&L statement but I don't know that for fact.

    I will say this. Most owners will not be affected by anything major. In addition, once all the irritating issues that arise are cleared up the likelihood of you enjoying your BMW are excellent. You just may need a bit of patience. Do I think other companies pay more attention to recurring problems? Absolutely, but I would not be able to prove that. I do think Japanese engineering is typically superior to the Germans as a general rule. However, Japanese vehicles lack soul and that is where BMW and a few of the Europeans bikes and cars seem to thrive. For those of us that can appreciate our wheels soul seems to be a powerful motivator in how much we like (love?) our wheels. And, there is something to be said for that.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ponch1 View Post
    May be the day of the week matters. Mondays can be rough during Octoberfest.
    Where is the alcohol content on those German beers I wonder?

  6. #21
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    Better than the urine manufactured over here!

    Back when I bought my '97 R1100RT, somehow I became THE recipient for the recall notifications for their SUVs. I'd take a red marker and write on their form "I do not own this vehicle" and returned it to them; then I upped that to "I do not now and never did own this vehicle"; then I upped that to "I do not own this or ANY BMW SUV." It took almost two years for the notices to stop coming...

  7. #22
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    Maybe we can create a list of their models by year and see if every single one of them have had recalls. That would be good for a laugh!

  8. #23
    Cowboyatheart
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    Quote Originally Posted by billy walker View Post
    I'm pretty opinionated when it comes to BMW NA/AG so you may want to speak with others and take what I have to say with a grain of salt if you feel it is appropriate.

    I do think Japanese engineering is typically superior to the Germans as a general rule. However, Japanese vehicles lack soul and that is where BMW and a few of the Europeans bikes and cars seem to thrive. For those of us that can appreciate our wheels soul seems to be a powerful motivator in how much we like (love?) our wheels. And, there is something to be said for that.
    My opinion is different. I think German engineering is superior, but production quality off the assembly line is higher for Japanese manufacturers.

    Again, no data to prove or disprove.
    Neil
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  9. #24
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    We have purchased at least four 1st year bikes. My F650 was the first delivered to a customer in the U.S., a few days before the unveiling at the dealerships. I rode it 600 miles and took it back for the 1st service. Then we put mine on the floor at Engle Motors for folks to look at while the other one they had was for demo rides that unveiling Saturday. It was a fine bike.

    Voni's 1994 titled R1100RS was one of the first load sent to the US. It was built in February of 1993 and we bought it in May of 1993 for Mother's Day. It is sitting outside our motel room here in Fallon, NV as I type with 364,000 miles on it and still running strong. It has been a good bike.

    My venerable K75 (wrecked in 2005 with 370,000 miles) was a first year bike and was virtually trouble free except for routine maintenance, a couple of driveshafts, and a cooling fan motor.

    My R1150R was a first year bike (I know it evolved from the 1100 with not huge changes) but at about 180,000 miles it has been trouble free.

    So while generalizations about new models may be valid, individual bikes may differ vastly from those generalizations. Face it. There will always be new models and somebody will buy them or there won't be any second year bikes of thatmodel. That is what a warranty to cover defects in materials or workmanship is all about. And while I have never bought one there are always extended warranty insurance policies too.

    They are machines. They will break. If that happens they get fixed. If in warranty by the dealer. If out of warranty by me. Then we ride them, and ride them some more.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  10. #25
    K Bikes Complex by Choice cjack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyatheart View Post
    My opinion is different. I think German engineering is superior, but production quality off the assembly line is higher for Japanese manufacturers.

    Again, no data to prove or disprove.
    Just because you have no data, doesn't mean you're wrong.
    BMWMotorcycles, fun when they're running...
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjack View Post
    Just because you have no data, doesn't mean you're wrong.
    If you're a manufacturer and you have recall after recall after recall after recall and then you're fined millions for your recall procedures what does that mean? You should be a recall pro by that point. You don't know how to build an assembly line that can assemble properly? I suppose it is always possible... Maybe the Japanese can provide assembly line assistance. Or, possibly Triumph. Their recall rate is exceptionally low as well.

  12. #27
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    After the OP's effort to inform riders this thread?s uniformed backfired carbon has been increasing post by post on all parts.

    http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchVehicles

    NHTSA's databases provide an in-depth record of Safety Issues for Vehicles, Child Restraints, Tires, and Equipment. Safety Issues include all safety recalls for your product as well as safety complaints other users have filed. You may also find any relevant service bulletins or NHTSA investigation documents.


    The database can be searched back to 1949 as I post this. For example VW was the first and manufacturer listed with a complaint, investigation, service bulletin or recall, in 1949. With the exception of 1951 it appears every year since 1949.

    Harley-Davidson was the first motorcycle manufacturer I notice in a quick tour of 62 years showing up in 1967 and every year since. Honda shows up in 1969 and beyond with the other Japanese manufacturers showing up on the list year after year shortly after that.

    BMW makes it's first appearance in 1971, 1973 and 1975. In 1977 is begins to appear every subsequent year afterwards, much like every other motorcycle manufacturer selling motorcycles in the USA and subject to the NHTSA's system of oversight and reporting.

    OH LETS ALL GO TO THE WAILING WALL AND WRING OUR HANDS AND CRY OUT IN ANGUISH

    Horsepucky !

    Historical data is there to be had, organized and used if you get your ample posteriors off those overstuffed saddles and do something with it.

    I firmly believe problems exist and are under reported.

    Learn how to fill out the bloody forms and use the system. You are paying for it. When you sue BMW or whomever your attorney will look to this database for information to support your case. Dumb motorcyclists like me look at this stuff and use the drill down to investigate bikes we own or are considering buying. Your report of a problem will help us.

    There may be other constructive ways to use and improve the data but this thread and the backfired carbon it is spewing is not one of them.

    If you don't have a constructive on topic for heaven's sake

    Pass the mustard and UP THE REVOLUTION!

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  13. #28
    Italo Train k75s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cowboyatheart View Post
    My opinion is different. I think German engineering is superior, but production quality off the assembly line is higher for Japanese manufacturers.
    In general I agree with your statement. I think German engineering is pretty good, but it is the design of the engines, suspensions, and overall package that make BMW's interesting for me. Most of these issues we are hearing about are quality control issues and related to pre-production and in production testing (or non-testing).

    German engineering is a little misleading these days, especially since BMW outsources some of it's engine design, like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

    http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%...RQ_Q2_2011.pdf

    I would not be surprised if the water head was designed by an external company also, maybe Ricardo again. I would also think that Ricardo would be somewhat embarrassed if one of their designs was failing due to quality control issues. A company like Ricardo does not want to be tied to a product that failed to sell to it's potential because of issues out of their control. They rely on a good resume of product success stories to sell their services.
    92 K75s (never sell), 97 F650st (sold), 04 R1100s (now owned by a deer), and about 10 others

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by k75s View Post
    In general I agree with your statement. I think German engineering is pretty good, but it is the design of the engines, suspensions, and overall package that make BMW's interesting for me. Most of these issues we are hearing about are quality control issues and related to pre-production and in production testing (or non-testing).

    German engineering is a little misleading these days, especially since BMW outsources some of it's engine design, like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

    http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%...RQ_Q2_2011.pdf

    I would not be surprised if the water head was designed by an external company also, maybe Ricardo again. I would also think that Ricardo would be somewhat embarrassed if one of their designs was failing due to quality control issues. A company like Ricardo does not want to be tied to a product that failed to sell to it's potential because of issues out of their control. They rely on a good resume of product success stories to sell their services.
    Very interesting. I have never heard of this company and it is a pleasure to learn something so significant. Maybe they offer subscriptions? Gotta' check them out!

    Thank you for writing!

  15. #30
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    The Ricardo company

    Quote Originally Posted by k75s View Post
    In general I agree with your statement. I think German engineering is pretty good, but it is the design of the engines, suspensions, and overall package that make BMW's interesting for me. Most of these issues we are hearing about are quality control issues and related to pre-production and in production testing (or non-testing).

    German engineering is a little misleading these days, especially since BMW outsources some of it's engine design, like the K1600 six cylinder which was designed by the Ricardo company.

    http://www.ricardo.com/Documents/RQ%...RQ_Q2_2011.pdf

    I would not be surprised if the water head was designed by an external company also, maybe Ricardo again. I would also think that Ricardo would be somewhat embarrassed if one of their designs was failing due to quality control issues. A company like Ricardo does not want to be tied to a product that failed to sell to it's potential because of issues out of their control. They rely on a good resume of product success stories to sell their services.
    Very fascinating company. For those that might be interested check out this web page:

    http://www.ricardo.com/en-GB/Our-Mar...-Case-Studies/

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