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Thread: Accident scene

  1. #1
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    Accident scene

    I came upon an accident today between 2 cages about 5 seconds after it happened. Essentially a big sport ute cut off an Asian sub compact coming out of Home Depot. The ute won the argument. In the Asian car, the airbags deployed and the front -the former front end-was crunched to windshield with radiator fluid and other fluids all over the road. There was an electrical burning smell.

    I took the Accident Scene management class at the West bend Rally, and about two years ago I completed a land rescue course via the Red Cross. The driver of the Asian car, a nursing student, was complaining of knee and neck paid. Two other people were there, both RN's, and they assessed her quickly. She managed to stand up, point at the other driver, and yell "You b***H! You cut me off. You didn't even see me. You didn't even look". She was really p****d. At that point Milwaukee Fire and Rescue arrived, and I think she will do OK.

    I left. But it left me thinking," had she been riding a motorcycle..."

    So what is the takeaway? Ride so they see you.
    Last edited by ultracyclist; 02-01-2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: typo
    "What is beautiful is simple, and what is simple always works"....Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47.
    Currently bikeless, but looking hard! "Center yourself in the vertizontal. Ride a motorcycle...namaste' "

  2. #2
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    No, you're going to have to see them.

    The lady made an incorrect assumption.

    Don't pull out in front of anybody who's close enough to hit you--right of way is meaningless ... especially if the other driver isn't intimidated by something smaller. Yes, they'll give you the right of way if you're bigger, otherwise maybe, maybe not. And, obviously you can't tell if they're distracted in any event.

    "Ride so they see you" is pretty much 100% wrong. What's 100% is that you're in charge of your destiny and in charge of your safety and you implement this not with bright clothing, headlight on, etc., etc., but rather with your own actions.
    Kent Christensen
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  3. #3
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree.
    You must always assume they don't see you if you're on a bike.

    You're always riding in their blind spot.
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  4. #4
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    Defensive "riding"(also handy when driving) rules the day. I'd much rather take out my anger from a distance, as the other car steals the right of way than up close & personal. I was once "torpedoed by a car" that was driven into the side of my PU on a 4 lane unrestricted hwy(24west N. of Topeka,KS) and as the guy was being tended by the ambulance people he was lamenting his next missed sales call while groaning in pain-NOT! did he kill the other guy-ME! Moral of my story: just hope you have a choice to be defensive, not if, you should have been.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  5. #5
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    No, you're going to have to see them.

    The lady made an incorrect assumption.

    Don't pull out in front of anybody who's close enough to hit you--right of way is meaningless ... especially if the other driver isn't intimidated by something smaller. Yes, they'll give you the right of way if you're bigger, otherwise maybe, maybe not. And, obviously you can't tell if they're distracted in any event.

    "Ride so they see you" is pretty much 100% wrong. What's 100% is that you're in charge of your destiny and in charge of your safety and you implement this not with bright clothing, headlight on, etc., etc., but rather with your own actions.
    Kent is spot-on with his advice, as ultimate responsibility for crash avoidance rests with you, the more vulnerable motorcyclist.

    I would add though not to ignore dressing to be as visible as possible - "part of being safe is being seen."

    But yield to anything that could hurt you - better to whine about an idiot driver over a steak supper that night than have hospital jello being spoon-fed to you by some nurse's aid named Bruno!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  6. #6
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    This reminds of my own experience this past Tuesday at 6:00 a.m. I was waiting at a red light, waiting to cross a four lane street. As the light changed, I was well into the first lane of the four, when I had to hit the brakes, as the opposing car made a left turn against me. What if I was on a bike? You have to always ride, anticipating and protecting yourself. Heck, in a parking lot, I've even had a car pull out in front of me, even though I was driving my van!
    Paul
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  7. #7
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Until we stop issuing licenses like the prize in a cracker jack box, and start pulling them for poor, distracted and dangerous driving it will only get worse. We have people who don't have a clue, passing their bad habits on to the next generation, in a reverse Darwinism.

    Maybe if we took away the guardrails, airbags, seat belts etc, drivers would get better or die, just like us riders.
    2010 F800GS Full Ohlins package, '04 R1100S Replika
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  8. #8
    Geoxman KJ6OCL's Avatar
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    All good comments! I believe in High Vis gear...I use high a vis yellow jacket w/ reflective stripes, and I just switched from a black to a white helmet. Head light always on. However, that is only the first part of self defense. I make the assumption that the other guy always has the right away! At an intersection, I can almost always tell when the other driver, on the side street or in the oncoming lane that wants to turn left, sees me. However, that driver can visually see, however does not mentally see me! That very important difference I am totally unable to discern. So, I make sure that I can either stop or avoid in these situations. As one who hates pain (both physical and financial) I'll give the other guy the right of way. I'd like to ride as long as possible, rather than trying to prove the point that I'm in the right.

    Lkarl KJ6OCL / 2000, R1200C

  9. #9
    MOA #24991 Pauls1150's Avatar
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    The nannycrats insist that we must cater to the lowest common denominator; Darwin is thereby overruled.

    It's not their "seeing" - it's perceiving. Tough to do when they're phoning + texting + applying makeup + spilling coffee + yelling at the screaming kids + listening to the "Recalculating..." And besides, my SUV is bigger than yours, so get the [heck] out of my way, I'm late.

    Priorities, ya know.

  10. #10
    Minnesota Nice! braddog's Avatar
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    My riding habits definitely transfer to my driving habits. I assume nothing about other vehicles on the road. This includes who has the right of way, use of blinkers, visibility, etc. Nothing.

    It's about avoiding the accident.

    Sure, good visibility should be practiced, but there are no guarantees. I think of visibility in almost the same terms as I do locks on your doors; they keep honest people honest. Crooks are going to break in anyway. Same with riding and visibility. The people that are actually looking are going to see you anyway, but for drivers who aren't paying attention for whatever reason, it's not going matter.
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  11. #11
    Old man in the mountains osbornk's Avatar
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    I ride paranoid. I assume they are all out to get me and I assume they don't see me.
    'You can say what you want about the South, but I almost never hear of anyone wanting to retire to the North.

  12. #12
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    very interesting

    All very good comments.
    I have changed my riding style over the years by trying to keep more open space in front of me. That is a full time job.
    Yes, I wear hi-viz gear.
    And yes, Ken, I am riding more the way you are.
    "What is beautiful is simple, and what is simple always works"....Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47.
    Currently bikeless, but looking hard! "Center yourself in the vertizontal. Ride a motorcycle...namaste' "

  13. #13
    Mars needs women! 35634's Avatar
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    I am always amazed at all the opportunities cagers have to take me out and they don't Now deer are a different story. Those things are animals!
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by osbornk View Post
    I ride paranoid. I assume they are all out to get me and I assume they don't see me.
    This seems to be the only way to survive these days. It is amazing to me the number of people that run red lights & fail to yield right of way these days! It's sadly becoming the "new normal" to expect the unexpected from other drivers. Not so many years ago it was rare to see someone run a red light but now fairly commonplace! It appears to be the "hurry up life style" practiced by many? What is the mentality of those that take these risks?
    A good question would be: why do you get to keep your driving privilege when you truly threaten the lives of others by these actions with a vehicle yet if it were done with "some other" lethal device(I'm trying to stay legal & not be too provocative here!) it would get you some jail time? Our society tolerates far to much, expects far too little from drivers.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  15. #15
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by kantuckid View Post
    This seems to be the only way to survive these days. It is amazing to me the number of people that run red lights & fail to yield right of way these days! It's sadly becoming the "new normal" to expect the unexpected from other drivers. Not so many years ago it was rare to see someone run a red light but now fairly commonplace! It appears to be the "hurry up life style" practiced by many? What is the mentality of those that take these risks?
    A good question would be: why do you get to keep your driving privilege when you truly threaten the lives of others by these actions with a vehicle yet if it were done with "some other" lethal device(I'm trying to stay legal & not be too provocative here!) it would get you some jail time? Our society tolerates far to much, expects far too little from drivers.
    You echo valid concerns on the minds of many a motorcyclist. Yet, we Americans are a pathetic bunch when it comes to personal responsibility.

    We resist intersection cameras and vote out of office any politician who would dare raise taxes to fund more squad cars on patrol to catch these idiots - yet grumble endlessly about how out of control the driving public has gotten.

    Don't see this getting any better any time soon.

    Be careful out there.
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
    Nationally Certified Law Enforcement Motor Officer (Ret.) / IBA Member #34281
    MSF RiderCoach # 121656 (BRC,SBRC,IS,IME,SMARTrainer)
    Motorcycle/Driving Instructor - ROAD AMERICA Race Track

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