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Thread: Accident scene

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  1. #1
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    Accident scene

    I came upon an accident today between 2 cages about 5 seconds after it happened. Essentially a big sport ute cut off an Asian sub compact coming out of Home Depot. The ute won the argument. In the Asian car, the airbags deployed and the front -the former front end-was crunched to windshield with radiator fluid and other fluids all over the road. There was an electrical burning smell.

    I took the Accident Scene management class at the West bend Rally, and about two years ago I completed a land rescue course via the Red Cross. The driver of the Asian car, a nursing student, was complaining of knee and neck paid. Two other people were there, both RN's, and they assessed her quickly. She managed to stand up, point at the other driver, and yell "You b***H! You cut me off. You didn't even see me. You didn't even look". She was really p****d. At that point Milwaukee Fire and Rescue arrived, and I think she will do OK.

    I left. But it left me thinking," had she been riding a motorcycle..."

    So what is the takeaway? Ride so they see you.
    Last edited by ultracyclist; 02-01-2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: typo
    "What is beautiful is simple, and what is simple always works"....Kalashnikov, inventor of the AK-47.
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  2. #2
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    No, you're going to have to see them.

    The lady made an incorrect assumption.

    Don't pull out in front of anybody who's close enough to hit you--right of way is meaningless ... especially if the other driver isn't intimidated by something smaller. Yes, they'll give you the right of way if you're bigger, otherwise maybe, maybe not. And, obviously you can't tell if they're distracted in any event.

    "Ride so they see you" is pretty much 100% wrong. What's 100% is that you're in charge of your destiny and in charge of your safety and you implement this not with bright clothing, headlight on, etc., etc., but rather with your own actions.
    Kent Christensen
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  3. #3
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Yes, I agree.
    You must always assume they don't see you if you're on a bike.

    You're always riding in their blind spot.
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  4. #4
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    Defensive "riding"(also handy when driving) rules the day. I'd much rather take out my anger from a distance, as the other car steals the right of way than up close & personal. I was once "torpedoed by a car" that was driven into the side of my PU on a 4 lane unrestricted hwy(24west N. of Topeka,KS) and as the guy was being tended by the ambulance people he was lamenting his next missed sales call while groaning in pain-NOT! did he kill the other guy-ME! Moral of my story: just hope you have a choice to be defensive, not if, you should have been.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

  5. #5
    Registered User greenwald's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    No, you're going to have to see them.

    The lady made an incorrect assumption.

    Don't pull out in front of anybody who's close enough to hit you--right of way is meaningless ... especially if the other driver isn't intimidated by something smaller. Yes, they'll give you the right of way if you're bigger, otherwise maybe, maybe not. And, obviously you can't tell if they're distracted in any event.

    "Ride so they see you" is pretty much 100% wrong. What's 100% is that you're in charge of your destiny and in charge of your safety and you implement this not with bright clothing, headlight on, etc., etc., but rather with your own actions.
    Kent is spot-on with his advice, as ultimate responsibility for crash avoidance rests with you, the more vulnerable motorcyclist.

    I would add though not to ignore dressing to be as visible as possible - "part of being safe is being seen."

    But yield to anything that could hurt you - better to whine about an idiot driver over a steak supper that night than have hospital jello being spoon-fed to you by some nurse's aid named Bruno!
    Kevin Greenwald - Touring Tips Editor
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  6. #6
    RK Ryder
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    This reminds of my own experience this past Tuesday at 6:00 a.m. I was waiting at a red light, waiting to cross a four lane street. As the light changed, I was well into the first lane of the four, when I had to hit the brakes, as the opposing car made a left turn against me. What if I was on a bike? You have to always ride, anticipating and protecting yourself. Heck, in a parking lot, I've even had a car pull out in front of me, even though I was driving my van!
    Paul
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  7. #7
    Small road corner junkie pffog's Avatar
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    Until we stop issuing licenses like the prize in a cracker jack box, and start pulling them for poor, distracted and dangerous driving it will only get worse. We have people who don't have a clue, passing their bad habits on to the next generation, in a reverse Darwinism.

    Maybe if we took away the guardrails, airbags, seat belts etc, drivers would get better or die, just like us riders.
    2010 F800GS Full Ohlins package, '04 R1100S Replika
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  8. #8
    Geoxman KJ6OCL's Avatar
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    All good comments! I believe in High Vis gear...I use high a vis yellow jacket w/ reflective stripes, and I just switched from a black to a white helmet. Head light always on. However, that is only the first part of self defense. I make the assumption that the other guy always has the right away! At an intersection, I can almost always tell when the other driver, on the side street or in the oncoming lane that wants to turn left, sees me. However, that driver can visually see, however does not mentally see me! That very important difference I am totally unable to discern. So, I make sure that I can either stop or avoid in these situations. As one who hates pain (both physical and financial) I'll give the other guy the right of way. I'd like to ride as long as possible, rather than trying to prove the point that I'm in the right.

    Lkarl KJ6OCL / 2000, R1200C

  9. #9
    Registered User cehlbeck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pffog View Post
    Until we stop issuing licenses like the prize in a cracker jack box, and start pulling them for poor, distracted and dangerous driving it will only get worse. We have people who don't have a clue, passing their bad habits on to the next generation, in a reverse Darwinism.

    Maybe if we took away the guardrails, airbags, seat belts etc, drivers would get better or die, just like us riders.
    To easy to obtain a driver's license and drive on busy, congested streets with other drivers in close proximity.

    On the other hand look at pilot licensing at least in the U.S.. You spend THOUSANDS on training for a regulated minimum number of hours, pay to take your written test, pay to take your oral and practical exam, get a physical every few years (dependent on age and class of license) and pay an instructor every two years for a flight review. Then mostly fly in a sky where collision with another aircraft (or anything) is pretty minimal except for in congested airspace and near airports.

    Get a driver's license? Show up, pay your fee, take a short written test, take a short driving test (sometimes in a parking lot), then take an eye test (maybe) to renew your license every 4-10 years. As it is, I can renew my driver's license online with a debit or credit card and nothing more.
    Chris Ehlbeck
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  10. #10
    Still Wondering mika's Avatar
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    The more things change the more they stay the same; holds true with the rules of riding. Lkchris is right.

    rant on-

    I received my first motorcycle license in WI by filling out a form and forking over a bit of pocket change. During my time in college in MN I picked up a chauffeur license the same way. Then when the law changed to break down into classes I ticked the Class A box because I moved semi trailers in a parking lot for one of my part time jobs. I was transferred to SD in the late 70s when it finally became a law that you had to signal your turns. A couple of years ago I was riding in US 6 in SW Iowa and was run off the road by someone who was leaning over in the cab of their pickup to get something of the floor(at least that is my guess). This took place a few miles away from the site of a fatal crash friends were involved in over forty years earlier. Same reason: the driver causing the accident dropped something wandered into on coming traffic taking out two cars, killing one person and sending my friends to the hospital for an extended stay. In my case I just had to clean the ditch weed and corn from my unexpected (yet prepared for) excursion.

    Yes I support tougher licensing requirements and more training. Yet how much time and money is used training pilots and yet crashes due to pilot error have been decreased but not eliminated.

    Yes I support banning texting and cell phones on the road at the same time I see drivers and riders demanding more and more technology in and on their vehicles. I rented a car on a recent trip that had as much or more computing power in the dashboard than I have on my desk right now. You need go no farther than this forum to find thread after thread asking how to mount and use cameras,GPS, blue tooth devices, intercoms, mount tablets etc for use on the fly.

    Yes, I support (for use on others :d) more law enforcement. Yet at any time who are the laws written for and the people LEOs are enforcing the draconian laws on? The same idiots that lkchris warned us to watch out for in the second post.



    rant off
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  11. #11
    Registered User 36654's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mika View Post


    Mika,

    Like you, I got my MC license by riding a Figure 8 in the Lock Haven PA City Hall parking lot when I was a senior in high school. The most notable event of the experience was the lecture from the policeman on why I should be in class instead of doing this foolishness. Although he didn't know me, it was nice to know that he cared enough to point out the "right way" to some kid.

    In any case, learning to drive and living in rural America, doesn't prepare you for the suburban and urban congestion that most of the population lives with. It's a big country, but the population is centered near the jobs. Driving in those conditions requires a level of focus that is exhausting and rarely pleasurable.

    I agree with Ken than more LEO's are needed for patrol, but they need consistent direction on what laws should enforced (just like getting the "boss" to prioritize the company policies). But, considering the political climate, hiring more police or paying their earned pensions is unlikely.

    So, as they say, watch out for the other guy..............He's bigger.
    Cave contents: 99 R11RS, 2013 Toyota Tacoma, 03 Simplicity Legacy, 97 Stihl FS75, Dewalt DW625 & DW744

  12. #12
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    As to hiring(or not) more LEO's: here in my very rural part of E. KY we got more sheriff's deputies from the Homeland Security $$$. It's ruined my retirement! I retired the year of 9/11 & now I have to worry about the terrorists coming to Appalachia? The Sheriff also bought a new Camry Hybrid with some of that Homeland Security largess.
    "If I had my life to live over, I'd dare to make more mistakes next time...I'd relax,I'd limber up... I would take fewer things seriously...take more chances... take more trips...climb more mountains...swim more rivers...eat more ice cream." Jorge Luis Borges at age 85.

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