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Thread: Beware of "THE BOLTS"!

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  1. #1
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    Beware of "THE BOLTS"!

    Words to the wise: In going after a valve adjustment on my 2003 R1150R I was removing the OEM valve cover protectors/head guards on my bike. These are the black plastic version with 3 attachment points,one on front and back of kug, the other under the jug. The one under is the culprit in my case and on each side! I encountered resistance there & eventually after trying a soak of the threads I proceeded to break of both of these socket head screws. The guard uses the bolt on each side that is in a threaded hole that is open at the back. My guess is that this allows corrosion to be more likely with these two holes. What makes for a difficult removal is the fact that these holes are both too close to the jug to allow a straight shot into the broken bolt for drilling. Not to get into a "broken bolt tutorial" here but I was able to use a 1/8" drill and keeping the drill very close to the underneath side of the jug, drill through the remaining bolt. When possible I avoid using bolt extractors but had a new Craftsman available and I tapped it into what looked like a doable situation. FWIW, the pkg said made in China. It broke before I could even give it much pressure. The other side I have almost out via more conventional chipping away with hardened steel "needles" I have in my tool box from past industrial work. Seems to be a job for a carbide burr next or maybe even a diamond burr using my Foredom tool handpiece. Heat is a hard sell for me in the jug location w/o removing the finish from adjoining parts.
    Beware of these two bolts that are encountered in a common maintenance procedure! It's not an easy spot to work nor a kind to your bike operation.
    I'm considering using a through bolt in a clearance size hole next rather than a cleanup the threads operation.
    I've seen these black guards criticized before, as compared to the more robust tubing style but find they actually do the job well with little weight, never had an issue before but been some miles since valve adjustment too. Hope I created some caution here.

  2. #2
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Steel bolts into an exposed aluminum threaded hole begs for anti-seize upon assembly.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
    "The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russell
    http://www.bigbend.net/users/glaves

  3. #3
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    Those are screws.

    Bolts need nuts on them.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

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    You are wrong. They are correctly called "sockethead cap screws". FWIW, I made a living needing to know what fastener to call for. Yes Paul, you are spot on!They need anti-seize which they got at the last valve adjustment but as they had me all day with carbide burrs(my entire supply of longer ones from my dentist) they need periodic attention. As mentioned the tight spot & the angle make for a difficult removal.

  5. #5
    Registered User lkchris's Avatar
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    So did I and I'm literate enough to know a socket head capscrew is a version of screw. I almost wrote the former, but thought it too much.
    Kent Christensen
    21482
    '12 R1200RT, '02 R1100S, '84 R80G/S

  6. #6
    Day Dreaming ... happy wanderer's Avatar
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    Nutz n' Boltz

    This has me confused.

    All these years I've been screwing in my wheel bolts and it turns out they are actually studs.

    The clutch adjuster is a screw with a nut on it. But it's a lock nut so it can't be a bolt, it's just a screw with a bolt like head on it..

    And a wing nut is really a screw with a nut on it too then I guess. Who knew ?

    I always thought of a screw as a threaded object that could only be so big and then it was a bolt.
    And a bolt was more studly than just a lowly screw...

    Aww jeez I'm really screwed now.
    MJM - BeeCeeBeemers Motorcycle Club Vancouver B.C.
    '81 R80G/S, '82 R100RS, '00 R1100RT

  7. #7
    Benchwrenching PGlaves's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Those are screws.

    Bolts need nuts on them.
    I knew that but misspoke. But that raises an interesting question.

    I have in my hand a "thing" with a socket head for a metric 6mm Allen wrench and 20mm length of M6x1.25 threads.

    It might go into a threaded hole with matching M6x1.25 threads; or

    It might go through non-threaded holes on two or more pieces and thread into an M6x1.25 nut.

    My F650, K75, and R1150R all have some of these things attached to them.

    So, here it is, in my hand. Is this thing a bolt, or is it a screw. Or does it remain just a thing until I decide where it needs to be installed?

    I need to go put this thing back in the little drawer in my collection of things now.

    Added after I got back from the parts bin: I just found another thing. It goes through the pivot point on a clutch lever and threads into threads on the perch. But it also then takes a nut on the threaded end too. This one happens to have a straight slot on what would be the top end when installed. So is this a bolt because it takes a nut or a screw because it threads into a threaded hole in the perch? Or is it a screwbolt?
    Last edited by PGlaves; 01-02-2013 at 07:51 AM.
    Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
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  8. #8
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    At age 31, I got an "A" in technical writing. I accept that you, Ikchris are literate, which as many greasy types such as myself will attest does not have much to do with nuts & bolts stuff. As they say these days, "My bad" in calling a type of screw , a "bolt",() but it seemed to be a catchy title-too catchy so it seems.
    Bottom line is beware of "those two fasteners" on an oil head as they might bite you as they did me. The only usual reason to remove them happens not so often. And Paul, beware of the term "things" as it will not float here in the land of techy stuff & snipers!

    At my age laying on a creeper for several hours doing "screw surgery" (not bolt surgery!) isn't fun. Especially when the SCREW! hole is in my bikes engine.Hope this causes someone to proceed with caution thereabouts.

  9. #9
    Registered User m_stock10506's Avatar
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    After we stop discussing the screw versus bolt nomenclature; this was good tip by kantuckid. Another tip on attaching these 1100 valve cover protectors - I swapped out one of the longer screws for one of the shorter ones, so on each side I'm using two of the M6X16, and only one M6X25 screws. I could not get one of the long screws to seat on both sides.
    Michael Stock, Trinity, NC
    R1100RT, R100, R60/6

  10. #10
    Registered User roger 04 rt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lkchris View Post
    Those are screws.

    Bolts need nuts on them.
    Quote Originally Posted by PGlaves View Post
    I knew that but misspoke. But that raises an interesting question.

    I have in my hand a "thing" with a socket head for a metric 6mm Allen wrench and 20mm length of M6x1.25 threads.

    It might go into a threaded hole with matching M6x1.25 threads; or

    It might go through non-threaded holes on two or more pieces and thread into an M6x1.25 nut.

    My F650, K75, and R1150R all have some of these things attached to them.

    So, here it is, in my hand. Is this thing a bolt, or is it a screw. Or does it remain just a thing until I decide where it needs to be installed?

    I need to go put this thing back in the little drawer in my collection of things now.

    Added after I got back from the parts bin: I just found another thing. It goes through the pivot point on a clutch lever and threads into threads on the perch. But it also then takes a nut on the threaded end too. This one happens to have a straight slot on what would be the top end when installed. So is this a bolt because it takes a nut or a screw because it threads into a threaded hole in the perch? Or is it a screwbolt?
    Not having the depth of experience to know that a bolt is called a screw when used without a nut, I've always called them bolts when they have the possibility of being used as such. "I just tightened the bolt on the cylinder head." This has often left me troubled and awake at night when a "bolt" happens to have an allen head on it.

    Here is something I found on an engineering site:

    The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used. However, there are those who have set about trying to define these words as precise engineering terms. The very nature of the common English use of these words renders that impossible. They further set themselves up as the ultimate authority on the meaning of these two words and chide accepted official standards for not adopting their ÔÇ£authoritativeÔÇØ definition. Acceptable standards such as The Machinery's Handbooki, the various government and military parts standards, and ASMEii parts standards are among the typical standards we as engineers rely on.

  11. #11
    Lucky motorradmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger 04 RT View Post
    Here is something I found on an engineering site:

    The words "bolt" and "screw" are ambiguous. Bolt or screw is not a physical thing; it is a matter of how a physical thing is used. However, there are those who have set about trying to define these words as precise engineering terms. The very nature of the common English use of these words renders that impossible. They further set themselves up as the ultimate authority on the meaning of these two words and chide accepted official standards for not adopting their ÔÇ£authoritativeÔÇØ definition. Acceptable standards such as The Machinery's Handbooki, the various government and military parts standards, and ASMEii parts standards are among the typical standards we as engineers rely on.
    ^ This sounds right.

    I think language is important and naming things properly is critical to good communication.
    However, language evolves and meanings of words get caught up in common usage.
    When necessary, one can always be more specific.
    ie: Wood screw, Machine screw
    Mike Marr
    1978 Yamaha XS750 (Needs rings), 1996 BMW R1100RS, 2004 Honda CRF230F

  12. #12
    Registered User texasmule's Avatar
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    Reminds me of an old joke.

    Guy asks girl, "what's the difference between a bolt and a screw?"

    Girl replies, "I don't know, I've never been bolted"

    and yes, anti-seize works well. My bike is covered in it...
    Last edited by TexasMule; 01-03-2013 at 05:20 PM.

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